Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Avion truck campers

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Topic: Avion truck campers - Hundreds of photos

Posted By: rastaman33609 on 09/27/15 12:58pm

cajunavion wrote:

Howdy!
Rastaman,, I am crazy about these campers, but I know y'all
all know the ugly truth, they all LEAK. Even if you could stop those pesky seam leaks, damp air will infiltrate and condensation will occur. Soo, you best make sure your stucture can take it. I like following boaters strategy. Encapsulate your wood in epoxy and avoid water trapping voids. The original wood insulation wood does not do either. Hence, read all the posts about rotten floors.
Take note of all the work D1 has gone to not to suffer this.
D1 has your camper become a class c rv? Beautiful work by the way!

I was at Home Depot today looking at stuff to work with..they dont have much ....What epoxy and sealers do you guys recommend?

I dont see much about anyone using fiberglass...anyone using it?
And what about using aluminum roofing screws with the rubber washers
My overhead bunk had screws from the outside going into the 1X's I was thinking of using roof screws to replace these.

Posted By: cajunavion on 09/27/15 03:03pm

Howdy!
Not fiberglass. West Systems Epoxy. Check the beginning posts.
I believe it was Dennis that showed the way. Cover your plywood
with 2 coats it will glue the pieces together forever. Marine ply. you do not want
voids found in reg ply. DONT USE TREATED. If you can find aluminum
screws locally, go for it.

Posted By: D1trout on 09/27/15 08:28pm

My family wants to show how happy they are now that they can move back and forth between Argo and the big bad truck...

Posted By: D1trout on 09/27/15 09:24pm

Rastaman, I'll try to give you some detailed answers about repairs. How you chose to proceed will depend upon how obsessed you become with rebuilding and waterproofing and what your budget is... It is possible to go way over the top on this sort of project. I'm an excellent example of that phenomenon!

Regarding epoxy, West System is the standard and available from West Marine(the two companies are unrelated) and other vendors. It is a powerful adhesive and can also be used to coat and waterproof wood. It's pretty thick but can easily be rolled on with a foam roller. For coating wood, it helps to warm the wood first - put it out in the sun or in a warm room. That will give you a little more viscosity. Don't roll the epoxy on in the direct sunlight if you can avoid it. And use the slow hardener, not the fast. Longer working time is better.
If you just wish to waterproof the plywood first, consider using a CPES - a clear penetrating epoxy sealant. Smith's is the standard here. It's thin and penetrates the wood very well, better than West epoxy, yet still hardens and protects when it sets up. It can be used to stabilize and strengthen damaged wood. A couple of coats will be all you need. That's the way I'd go. Use Smith's, then if you penetrate the outer aluminum skin or just the layers of ply with screws or rivets, caulk each hole with Trempro, the standard polyurethane caulk of Avion/Airstream restorations or a Sika product. Some of these are just caulks and some combine caulking with powerful adhesives. You could use Sikaflex to bond the two plys together without mechanical fasteners. I'd be more concerned with any penetration through the outer aluminum skin than with interior screws in ply. Try to minimize those. Use existing holes, with lots of caulk.
Aluminum roofing screws might be just the thing. No electrolysis issues. The little rubber washers could be a worthwhile feature. Drill, caulk, screw in the screw and then clean up the excess caulk before it sets up. Acetone works well.
Re fiberglass, the only place it is used in the factory rig is in the 'bustle', that molding that attaches at the bottom and rear of the camper and contains the holding tank. There's no place on the outside where I'd use glass. Inside, I think you could just as well use epoxy-sealed plywood. Easier to work with than glass.
You have read about Vintage Trailer Supply by now. A great source for almost everything you need to proceed. And I have found Chuck Cayo at Cayo RV Repair in Michigan to be helpful with advise on issues I've been unable to resolve in any other way. He also has a varied and surprising collection of parts, moldings, etc for old Avions and Cayos. 269-463-5068.

Above all, don't get discouraged. It can be daunting to get these rigs repaired and operating in an efficient fashion. You need courage and persistence. The road to Muley Point is long and winding and rugged in some places, but I've been told that the view when you get there is spectacular.

Onward!
Dick

Posted By: rastaman33609 on 09/28/15 06:31am

D1trout....Thank you so much for your detail advise. If I use the Smith's would there still be a need to use marine ply?

I was also wondering for those who have done this before if the sheets of ply should be glued together before installing them, or as they are installed one at a time. Forgive me if these questions seem naive, however this part of the project I find somewhat daunting, I have not worked with wood in such a detailed fashion much before. I basically know what needs to be done, base on others experience. Just that some of the actual details as to how it was actually done was not clear to a dummy like me.

So tell me if this sounds like a plan:

1. measure and cut plywood to size.
2. Use as many layers and sizes of ply to firmly fit inside aluminum
frame channel.
3. Seal and treat both sides and edges of each board with Smiths.
4. Install each sheet or previously glued together sheets,
5. Screw from outside using existing holes using caulk on screws
6, screw boards together from inside.

The above is for the overhead bunk area. I have not taken a close enough look at the wings, but it would appear from all I have read that I can expect to have to rebuild both wings also.

I am actually looking forward to the challenge ahead, however the budget does not allow for me to go overboard with 'perfection' I need to get the most 'bang for the buck' If you know what I mean?

I have only 86 pages left to study in this thread, and have learn't a lot,that I wish I had known before buying my C10, I would still have bought it, but would have had more negotiating power :-)

Thanks once again..believe me I need all the help I can get :-)

David

Posted By: ticki2 on 09/28/15 08:27am

This question is directed to D1trout and 69cayo but is open to anyone . Both of you have had the interior completely striped of insulation . Did you find any evidence of leaks at any of the panel seams ? This subject has come up several times about seams leaking . When I did my front end repair I found no signs of leaks at any of the panel seams , only at the penetrations , windows ,vents etc.. The panels had some kind of double sided foam tape as the seal . I used Tempro ( vulcum )caulk for the repair , which was used for Airstreams for 50 years . In the process of replacing the window plastic panes on the drivers side I used Tempro for the install . This seemed to fix a chronic leak that the original owner had complained about from paper work that I still have . When I removed the windows I did not lke the caulking job that saw . So my conclusion is that the panel joints are usually not the problem , the penetrations are where the leaks stem from . What say you ?

'68 Avion C-11
'02 GMC DRW D/A flatbed

Posted By: Michael 111 on 09/28/15 09:18am

My seams were leaking all over the place
Every time it rains i am out there chasing leaks. Hence the reason for my drastic measures for using an outside epoxy to seal the seams and next spring i paint over it

Nothing that i have tried seemed to work, tried vulcem, acryl r, and another brand of penetrating epoxy
Finally went to Gluevit and i am down to 2 leaks from about 30 ish

Just my experience

M

Posted By: 69cayo on 09/28/15 09:29am

What I found was windows and window frames and loose rivets that leak.
I located the leaks while being in the camper (after it was stripped to the shell) during one of our monsoons down here.
I would not say you should ignore the seams because traveling down the road at 60 mph in a downpour might show different results.

Dennis

Posted By: garryk6 on 09/28/15 10:15am

69cayo wrote:

My C10 was completely resealed by the previous owner, and he did a pretty decent job. I have two spots that I am still chasing, and it seams that they only leak while driving down the freeway in heavy rains, which Alaska can have too like your monsoons. I am still chasing one through or around the front window, and I have one somewhere around the passengers lower front corner by the curve between the dinette and the upper bunk. I know that they are there and I keep trying different tactics, but no luck yet...

Garry

Garry K
Wife + 4 kids
Retired Military Family.... Alway's on the move....
2002 F350 CCSB 5.4 6spd 4x4 in AK
1966 Avion C-10 Truck Camper

Posted By: 69cayo on 09/28/15 01:29pm

Rastaman, This is how I redid my bunk area..........
I built a frame out of 1x4 fir..

[image]

The frame allows me to insulate and it is lighter than 2 shts. of 3/4 ply laminated together.

Lap joints were used for the frame...

[image]

Everything was dry fitted and checked before gluing & fasteners.
The frame was glued up as 2 separate pieces with 3/8 ply on the top only.

[image]

Each half was then slid into place and glued & clamped.

[image]

I let the glue cure overnight (elmers or titebond waterproof glue) then slid the lower 3/8 shts. into place and braced the bottom so I could crawl up top.

[image]

At this point it was just the matter of installing the insulation and the center top sht. of 3/8 and a couple of coats of West Systems epoxy.

All the plywood was glued down with West Systems and all edges were treated before installing with the same.

You can duplicate this using just plywood if you like.
Install the bottom pieces first with the face grain running left to right, then the left and right radius pieces up top with face grain north and south, then finally the center piece again with the face grain north and south.

Cut all the pieces 1st. and lay them together and double check everything before treating them.

I hope this helps.
Where are you ? Tampa ?

Dennis

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