Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Avion truck campers

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Topic: Avion truck campers - Hundreds of photos

Posted By: ticki2 on 01/23/13 05:55am

Avion C-11 wrote:

Hey all, I'd be interested in your thoughts about 110v setups. I'm going to start that project in the coming weekend.

My old converter works. Should I keep it or do something different?

Should I charge battery from truck?

If you had the opportunity to rewire your whole camper what would you add or do differently.

Any feedback appreciated.

Chris

My converter was also in working order with no buzzing . I chose to upgrade to a new 3 stage for healthier battery maintenance . The original was a single speed 13.6v .

The 12v system consists of 2 circuits , the water pump and everything else . Without completely rewiring I have tried to separate some fixtures to add more circuits . Added another heavier gauge 12v outlet . Light under overhead cabinets over table . Light for wardrobe closet.

Added another 120v GFI outlet to the right of the sink .

Added heavy gauge charge cables with separate plug and switched solenoid from truck . Very pleased with results .

If completely rewiring I would have more than a 2 circuit entrance panel . Wiring for solar , audio , video , inverter and AC .

'68 Avion C-11
'02 GMC DRW D/A flatbed

Posted By: thundercloud on 01/23/13 01:05pm

With regards to insulating your campers with spray foam from either DOW's Goodstuff or from Spray Foam Kits I would advise against it. Not from the fact that they can't insulate well because they do, it would be from the off gased products they produce not only immediately but long term. These are well known cancer causing chemicals that are released both short and long term. I would suggeest you look up the MSDS on these products. A better product for a healthier and "true green" product would be to use icynene spray foam. When it is applied it off gases water and it has no long term off gasing of anykind. Icynene Here is a link to a ton of info that is well worth taking a look at. My friend insulated his entire barn in this stuff, built live in quarters on one half and has lived in there for almost two years. He reports that it is the best insulation he has ever used in all of the homes he has built (and he has built some nice efficent homes in SW Colorado). He reports that it seals out any drafts, which is the main factor for heat and cold lost and that it is an exellant sound and vapor barrier. He plans on buiding a 2500-3000 sqft. house on his property and will insulate his whole house in it. He also mentioned that it really is not all that expensive to have it installed. On a side not we built a walk in cooler to hang game meat for processing using icynene and a Coldbot controlled window air conditioner that works better than designed.

Happy TC'N,
David
____________________________________________
2006 Dodge Ram 3500 MegaCab 4x4 CTD 6-speed
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4SB, Xantrex XADC 60, AM Solar 200 watt SunRunner system, Mach8 Cub, Honda eu2200i, Rigid Industries LED lights

Posted By: 67avion on 01/24/13 10:49am

thundercloud wrote:

With regards to insulating your campers with spray foam from either DOW's Goodstuff or from Spray Foam Kits I would advise against it.

I've been interested in "green" products for some time in the house restorations that I do - so I am also curious about their application in the Avion camper. The application method is a pressure filled hose that is blown or sprayed onto a surface. I am wondering several things:

1) The R factor for closed cell MD - C 200 Icynene is 6.75 per inch.

2) It is a "rigid, not flexible composition".

This leads me to wonder about the precision of application in an airspace between the outer and inner shells of the Avion - overall maybe 1 inch. And then applying the material so that some airspace was retained?

So if it covered half of that space it's R value would be maybe 3 or so. Am I correct? And then the question of rigidity of the application would have to be addressed. Would flexing cause failure in the insulation? Or conversely would rigidity cause issues with the riveted surface plates of aluminum?

Posted By: thundercloud on 01/24/13 04:12pm

67avion,

R-value is derived from a controlled laboratory test of an insulation's resistance to conductive heat flow. Icynene's R-value is 3.6, similar to fiberglass. Unlike foams filled with CFC or HCFC, the R-Value of air filled foam does not decline as it ages. R-Values of insulating materials are measured in laboratories and are designated a nominal R-Value per inch. In the wall or ceiling of a building, most factory made insulation materials suffer a reduction in performance due to air leakage and infiltration. The insulating value of many building components may be as low as 50% of the nominal R-Value of the insulation they contain.
By contrast, the insulation of a wall containing Icynene insulation will perform closely to the laboratory tested R-Value of the material and seal the wall cavity from air infiltration as well. It is the air leakage and infiltration that decreases R-Values or decreases the ability of a space to remain warm or cool. The Icynene insulation system is particularly suited to steel frame construction. Icynene expands 100:1 as it is installed, adhering to surrounding building components. It completely seals joints, crevices and voids, including difficult-to-insulate spaces such as steel stud "U" and "C" sections, double studs and non-standard stud locations. A continuous air/vapor barrier is formed around the building structure in a single application. If I recall my Bigfoot camper has a R8 1-1/2” high density EPS insulation, but also has air infiltration and leakage because it is not a completely sealed system. The EPS insulation is not blown in, rather it is blocks of insulation that are fitted together, thus forming voids for air infiltration. If I had an Avion camper gutted on the inside, I would spray Icynene everywhere (ceiling, walls, under the top bunk and even the floor). Just insulation for thought.

Dave

Posted By: 67avion on 01/24/13 04:25pm

I may not have been clear about the inner and outer shell of the Avion. They are held together by struts that are connected by rivets from above and below. In the resulting interior space - between the shells- an insulating layer was laid down. But it purposely did not fill the entire void. It only adheres to the outer shell. The resulting airspace is what I was referring to in terms of applying insulation. Then there were the issues of "rigid and not flexible" material in the closed cell. I wonder if you can address those concerns? thanks.

Posted By: thundercloud on 01/24/13 06:24pm

67avion,

I probably can't address your concerns but if there was a way to blow in the Icynene in-between the inner and outer shell that could add rigidity to the structure. Maybe I will look back through this 105 page post and look for photos of the Avion's structure to get a better idea. What other kinds of ideas did you have in mind for insulating in-between the shells?

Posted By: ticki2 on 01/24/13 06:53pm

Another concern with spayed on foam insulation is the heat generated during cure . If just adding to the existing it's not a problem . If spraying onto the bare exterior aluminum it could cause buckling of the aluminum . Each product has different characteristics . If I had one gutted I would be more concerned with thermally isolating the ribs from the skin than filling the wall cavity .

Posted By: thundercloud on 01/24/13 07:44pm

I managed to look through the first 26 pages of this post and found photos on pages 5,6, 20 and 22 that showed the bare aluminum and rib structure. Some photos showed what appears to be the original insulation of a spray foam type. This is where I would spray the Icynene foam, on the bare aluminum, let it expand and once cured (a few hours) I would shave it down to the edge of the ribs and re-fiberglass the interior. I don't think the heat generated during curing would cause buckling of the aluminum since it takes so little time to cure, and as it is curing, water vapor is the product that is off gassing.

Posted By: 69 Avion on 01/25/13 07:25am

It sounds like a great product. If I had pulled of the interior aluminum skin on my camper, I would really research this product. It may be the best option. I will check it out anyway, just in case I ever do another rebuild.

Are any RV manufacturers currenty using it?

Ford F-350 4x4 Diesel
1988 Avion Triple Axle Trailer
1969 Avion C-11 Camper

Posted By: thundercloud on 01/25/13 07:43am

69 Avion wrote:

Are any RV manufacturers currenty using it?

None that I am aware of.

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