Ken, the intake and carb I'm waiting on is an oem set-up with a quadra-bog carb, it all should fit neatly under the dog house.
I had the Eddy performer intake and 600cfm on my PW, and with the right engine bits, that sucker had TONS of power! Ran pretty good in the 1/4 mile, too!
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
I understand what the Doc is trying to accomplish (sorry folks, I mean MBD. I know him as Doc from another life), and I think his experiment, whether it's successful or not, is a valid one. I just don't know anything about the 413 truck engines AT ALL. The 440 I know, but like Ken said, mine's built for speed and drivability. This is in my 1966 Dodge Charger.
And to step back to the flavor of this original thread, now that I have brakes, I just ordered a set of 16x6 wheels for the Tioga! WOO-HOO! No more searching for 16.5 tires!!!!!!!
I still need to figure out where exactly to carry 2 spares though...
Eric
MasterBoondocker wrote:
Comments, thoughts and OPINIONS is what this forum is all about. But I must take-issue with info that is posted as TECH and a FACT - and that is flat-out wrong. Sorry -- that is just me.
The range of the 413 is just a tad short of what you claim for the 440. But WHERE do you run your 440 at 4500 rpm for any extended period of time? Would you not agree that 2500-3000 is where most-of-us run these motors?
The valve sizes are too small on the 413 ? ...... why then would the aftermarket head builders for race-stuff only build most of their heads with a 1.81 exh valve? .... and this is to be put on a motor that is very near 500 cubic inches and rpmed UP to 7000 commonly ?
My hands have-been-dirty and will be getting more-so with this project. My main object is to get the best fuel-econ as possible.
Big_John wrote:
That range of 800 to 4500rpm is where the stock 440 shines. I don't think anyone will disagree with that. It was never meant as a high RPM engine. Again, in my application, I do very little sustained speed highway driving and I see a lot of different RPM ranges.
My comments are really aimed at a small valve 413 head on a 440 engine. The 413 is a good piece, all the way around, just as the 440 is.
Try it? yes... exactly that. Bolt the heads on and head down the highway. Flow benches, dynos, whatever... will tell you a lot, but until the rubber hits the road, its only theory and a bunch of data points. FUN (note word "FUN") to talk about on forums such as these and interesting when someone actually gets their hands dirty and reports back.
That range of 800 to 4500rpm is where the stock 440 shines. I don't think anyone will disagree with that. It was never meant as a high RPM engine. Again, in my application, I do very little sustained speed highway driving and I see a lot of different RPM ranges.
My comments are really aimed at a small valve 413 head on a 440 engine. The 413 is a good piece, all the way around, just as the 440 is.
Try it? yes... exactly that. Bolt the heads on and head down the highway. Flow benches, dynos, whatever... will tell you a lot, but until the rubber hits the road, its only theory and a bunch of data points. FUN (note word "FUN") to talk about on forums such as these and interesting when someone actually gets their hands dirty and reports back.
Comments, thoughts and OPINIONS is what this forum is all about. But I must take-issue with info that is posted as TECH and a FACT - and that is flat-out wrong. Sorry -- that is just me.
The range of the 413 is just a tad short of what you claim for the 440. But WHERE do you run your 440 at 4500 rpm for any extended period of time? Would you not agree that 2500-3000 is where most-of-us run these motors?
The valve sizes are too small on the 413 ? ...... why then would the aftermarket head builders for race-stuff only build most of their heads with a 1.81 exh valve? .... and this is to be put on a motor that is very near 500 cubic inches and rpmed UP to 7000 commonly ?
My hands have-been-dirty and will be getting more-so with this project. My main object is to get the best fuel-econ as possible.
Yes, I do agree that "most users" will run at 2500-3000 RPM and my 440 isn't run at 4500 RPM for any "extended" period of time, but it does hit the top end of that range with some regularity. The bottom of the two mile long steep hill that leads up to the house comes to mind along with trying to blend into 75-80 MPH traffic on the NYS Thruway on ramps (when I use the Interstate, which isn't that often) At those times, I really desire the most power available and gas mileage is pretty much tossed out the window.
Of course, that said, I never consider myself as a "most user" and if I had a narrower power band, I'd like a gear or two more in my transmission to keep it at that range. One of the reasons I have always preferred the 440 is it has a broad power band that works well with the torqueflite trans.
As far as the race heads, yes, 1.81 exhaust valves are used, but IMHO, the big block Mopar head has more limitations on the intake side. Chrysler themselves addressed this back in the early sixties with the max-wedge. If you look at B1 race heads, you'll see they use a 1.78 exhaust and a 2.30 Intake. But.. of course, now you're talking about a head with raised ports, repositioned valves and spark plug, etc. Of course, you can't bolt a stock intake up to that as the intake ports are different. But... that's a race head. Let's keep that in perspective. Apples vs. Apples.
Its only my opinion about the valve size. I've never claimed it to be anything else.
Concerning the service manual, keep in mind that its written for the mechanic and are written prior to actual production. I've noticed in many other manuals, not just the truck manuals, that the pictures may not be 100% correct for the application. If you look in other manuals, you'll see the same picture over and over again. Its more about illustrating the procedure then anything else. Its another source of info, but in this case, a picture is not worth a thousand words.
* This post was edited 07/31/07 07:37am by Big_John *
79powerwagon wrote:
Thanks for the info Leeann! I'll get a set on order and start whacking away!
Ken, the intake and carb I'm waiting on is an oem set-up with a quadra-bog carb, it all should fit neatly under the dog house.
I had the Eddy performer intake and 600cfm on my PW, and with the right engine bits, that sucker had TONS of power! Ran pretty good in the 1/4 mile, too!
I understand what the Doc is trying to accomplish (sorry folks, I mean MBD. I know him as Doc from another life), and I think his experiment, whether it's successful or not, is a valid one. I just don't know anything about the 413 truck engines AT ALL. The 440 I know, but like Ken said, mine's built for speed and drivability. This is in my 1966 Dodge Charger.
And to step back to the flavor of this original thread, now that I have brakes, I just ordered a set of 16x6 wheels for the Tioga! WOO-HOO! No more searching for 16.5 tires!!!!!!!
I still need to figure out where exactly to carry 2 spares though...
Eric
Thanks for the info Leeann! I'll get a set on order and start whacking away!
Ken, the intake and carb I'm waiting on is an oem set-up with a quadra-bog carb, it all should fit neatly under the dog house.
I had the Eddy performer intake and 600cfm on my PW, and with the right engine bits, that sucker had TONS of power! Ran pretty good in the 1/4 mile, too!
I understand what the Doc is trying to accomplish (sorry folks, I mean MBD. I know him as Doc from another life), and I think his experiment, whether it's successful or not, is a valid one. I just don't know anything about the 413 truck engines AT ALL. The 440 I know, but like Ken said, mine's built for speed and drivability. This is in my 1966 Dodge Charger.
And to step back to the flavor of this original thread, now that I have brakes, I just ordered a set of 16x6 wheels for the Tioga! WOO-HOO! No more searching for 16.5 tires!!!!!!!
I still need to figure out where exactly to carry 2 spares though...
Eric
Hey! A '66 Charger! I have a '69 A12 Roadrunner!
MasterBoondocker wrote:
I ask you Leeann ...why do you come after me on this -- when it was very clear that the other-guy was so wrong - on so many other TECH and real-world FACTS ?
I ask you Leeann ...why do you come after me on this -- when it was very clear that the other-guy was so wrong - on so many other TECH and real-world FACTS ?
Whoa. I go after no one. You asked what service manual showed rotators on the 440. I was looking for something else in my manual and saw that, so I simply answered the question that was in amongst the rest of the crap.
That's all.
'73 Concord 20' Class A w/Dodge 440 - see profile for photo
79powerwagon wrote:
I still need to figure out where exactly to carry 2 spares though...
Eric
I still need to figure out where exactly to carry 2 spares though...
Eric
We had one spare mounted on the spare tire thing on the back, but wanted to carry 2. So the bf took threaded rod large enough, cut it to length, used large washers and bolted it to the spare that was bolted to the carrier, sticking out. Then put the second spare on that and used more large washers and nuts.
It's pretty secure. Gone on 2 150+ mile trips without loosening (yes, we do check).
Excellent!
Leeann wrote:
We had one spare mounted on the spare tire thing on the back, but wanted to carry 2. So the bf took threaded rod large enough, cut it to length, used large washers and bolted it to the spare that was bolted to the carrier, sticking out. Then put the second spare on that and used more large washers and nuts.
It's pretty secure. Gone on 2 150+ mile trips without loosening (yes, we do check).
79powerwagon wrote:
I still need to figure out where exactly to carry 2 spares though...
Eric
I still need to figure out where exactly to carry 2 spares though...
Eric
We had one spare mounted on the spare tire thing on the back, but wanted to carry 2. So the bf took threaded rod large enough, cut it to length, used large washers and bolted it to the spare that was bolted to the carrier, sticking out. Then put the second spare on that and used more large washers and nuts.
It's pretty secure. Gone on 2 150+ mile trips without loosening (yes, we do check).
If you recall, this old Dodge uses dually in the rear, and convention singles up front. The spare hanging under the house (stock location for the Dodge chassis) is the conventional style, and the dually won't fit. My house has a rear entry door, so no room on the back. I could mount it on the nose, but then I'd be affecting my cold air flow to the engine. And, since I'm no spring chicken anymore, the roof is out of the question!
There is only 12' of interior space... maybe just yank out the fridge, no wait! Where will the beer go?
I guess I'll keep nosing around the rig, I'll find a spot for it!
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
Eric
Is the front hub assembly different that it cannot take the dually half? seems these would be in great supply in a junk yard? I only carry one half as my front takes the dually half (whatever they are called) and figure I can limp on one if both go in the back. to much of a PITA and weight to carry two!
Ken
My A takes the same front and rear, but the '75 C I had first had different rims.