MasterBoondocker wrote:
The heads have MUCH smaller valves ..... 1.88 intake... 1.50 exhaust. But you don't need any more than that IF you are running a motor in an RV application like we do.(under 3,000 rpm for 99.99% of the time) The exh seats are REMOVEable and hardened. PLUS the exh valves are sodium filled. Plus PLUS the spark-plug is in an angled location towards the exh valve. The comb chamber is a "closed" design but it appears larger than a typical closed chamber head. I will be getting some cc numbers OF the chambers and the ports ASAP.
You NEVER have to use that funky-pump -- you can just block the head off .... but having all this extra coolant IN the head -- why not use a proven combo?
Head gasket ? ... I have always used a steel-shim. UNless I want to lower the compression ratio.
Big_John wrote:
Chrysler did a lot of different stuff over the years, so I may be completely wrong but, IIRC the 413 heads have smaller valves. Of course that can be changed and you'll want to go to hardened valve seats anyway, so the job is already half done. The combustion chamber is most likely the closed chamber type like Chrysler used in '67 and before. It'll bring up the compression ratio a touch, but at the chamber design isn't the best for "breathing". Of course, then you have to use that big funky water pump that has the ports into the head too.
There might be some benefits from additional cooling in the heads, but IMHO, unless you're going to increase the valve size, I think it would make a bunch less power.
As to the question about the bottom end handling increased compression, the 440 is pretty strong. Take one apart and you'll see what I mean. Unless you're thinking about something really crazy, the bottom end will take about anything you can throw at it. Head gasket failure shouldn't be a problem either, as long as everything is flat before assembly. Myself, I don't use the steel shim gasket anymore and went to the far superior composition gaskets years ago.
Chrysler did a lot of different stuff over the years, so I may be completely wrong but, IIRC the 413 heads have smaller valves. Of course that can be changed and you'll want to go to hardened valve seats anyway, so the job is already half done. The combustion chamber is most likely the closed chamber type like Chrysler used in '67 and before. It'll bring up the compression ratio a touch, but at the chamber design isn't the best for "breathing". Of course, then you have to use that big funky water pump that has the ports into the head too.
There might be some benefits from additional cooling in the heads, but IMHO, unless you're going to increase the valve size, I think it would make a bunch less power.
As to the question about the bottom end handling increased compression, the 440 is pretty strong. Take one apart and you'll see what I mean. Unless you're thinking about something really crazy, the bottom end will take about anything you can throw at it. Head gasket failure shouldn't be a problem either, as long as everything is flat before assembly. Myself, I don't use the steel shim gasket anymore and went to the far superior composition gaskets years ago.
The heads have MUCH smaller valves ..... 1.88 intake... 1.50 exhaust. But you don't need any more than that IF you are running a motor in an RV application like we do.(under 3,000 rpm for 99.99% of the time) The exh seats are REMOVEable and hardened. PLUS the exh valves are sodium filled. Plus PLUS the spark-plug is in an angled location towards the exh valve. The comb chamber is a "closed" design but it appears larger than a typical closed chamber head. I will be getting some cc numbers OF the chambers and the ports ASAP.
You NEVER have to use that funky-pump -- you can just block the head off .... but having all this extra coolant IN the head -- why not use a proven combo?
Head gasket ? ... I have always used a steel-shim. UNless I want to lower the compression ratio.
Yes, I guess you're right that you wouldn't have to use that pump, but I thought that was the idea.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
Does the industrial engine have the removable valve seats? All the other big block Mopar heads I've ever seen don't have this.
I still think the valves are too small, even in the low RPM range, but that's only my opinion. It would be interesting to see how well they work in this application though.
Big_John wrote:
Yes, I guess you're right that you wouldn't have to use that pump, but I thought that was the idea.
Does the industrial engine have the removable valve seats? All the other big block Mopar heads I've ever seen don't have this.
I still think the valves are too small, even in the low RPM range, but that's only my opinion. It would be interesting to see how well they work in this application though.
Yes, I guess you're right that you wouldn't have to use that pump, but I thought that was the idea.
Does the industrial engine have the removable valve seats? All the other big block Mopar heads I've ever seen don't have this.
I still think the valves are too small, even in the low RPM range, but that's only my opinion. It would be interesting to see how well they work in this application though.
That massive pump is not required to use the heads ... but under heavy load -- it does prove it's worth.
Those valve seats ARE removeable - indeed. But in the many sets I have seen ... I have never seen a "smoked seat". Now on the 440 heads ... I have seen heads that have had the valve sunk almost .200. Are you also aware that the exh valves had rotators on them? ...
How well they work in "this" application ? .... the proof is in the pudding. Chrysler really did their home-work on these heads.
You question the valve size ? ..... at under 3k rpm? ....why?
eyeteeth wrote:
I'm curious... what have others been doing about replacing/updating propane tanks for the opd valve regulation on these older units? Can they use "standard" 20-30-40 lb tanks?
I'm curious... what have others been doing about replacing/updating propane tanks for the opd valve regulation on these older units? Can they use "standard" 20-30-40 lb tanks?
My truck came new with 2-20 lb tanks. I simply went to the RV place and bought 2 new hoses with the new style connector and BINGO! All done! The previous owner was even nice enough to "forget" that he the new tanks there (probably for a grill since they wouldn't work on the rig), so my only expence was for the 2 new lines!!!!
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
'73 Concord 20' Class A w/Dodge 440 - see profile for photo
79powerwagon wrote:
My truck came new with 2-20 lb tanks. I simply went to the RV place and bought 2 new hoses with the new style connector and BINGO! All done! The previous owner was even nice enough to "forget" that he the new tanks there (probably for a grill since they wouldn't work on the rig), so my only expence was for the 2 new lines!!!!
eyeteeth wrote:
I'm curious... what have others been doing about replacing/updating propane tanks for the opd valve regulation on these older units? Can they use "standard" 20-30-40 lb tanks?
I'm curious... what have others been doing about replacing/updating propane tanks for the opd valve regulation on these older units? Can they use "standard" 20-30-40 lb tanks?
My truck came new with 2-20 lb tanks. I simply went to the RV place and bought 2 new hoses with the new style connector and BINGO! All done! The previous owner was even nice enough to "forget" that he the new tanks there (probably for a grill since they wouldn't work on the rig), so my only expence was for the 2 new lines!!!!
So 9er ...what is the date on the tanks? New lines on the tanks do not make it a OPD.
MasterBoondocker wrote:
That massive pump is not required to use the heads ... but under heavy load -- it does prove it's worth.
Those valve seats ARE removeable - indeed. But in the many sets I have seen ... I have never seen a "smoked seat". Now on the 440 heads ... I have seen heads that have had the valve sunk almost .200. Are you also aware that the exh valves had rotators on them? ...
How well they work in "this" application ? .... the proof is in the pudding. Chrysler really did their home-work on these heads.
You question the valve size ? ..... at under 3k rpm? ....why?
Big_John wrote:
Yes, I guess you're right that you wouldn't have to use that pump, but I thought that was the idea.
Does the industrial engine have the removable valve seats? All the other big block Mopar heads I've ever seen don't have this.
I still think the valves are too small, even in the low RPM range, but that's only my opinion. It would be interesting to see how well they work in this application though.
Yes, I guess you're right that you wouldn't have to use that pump, but I thought that was the idea.
Does the industrial engine have the removable valve seats? All the other big block Mopar heads I've ever seen don't have this.
I still think the valves are too small, even in the low RPM range, but that's only my opinion. It would be interesting to see how well they work in this application though.
That massive pump is not required to use the heads ... but under heavy load -- it does prove it's worth.
Those valve seats ARE removeable - indeed. But in the many sets I have seen ... I have never seen a "smoked seat". Now on the 440 heads ... I have seen heads that have had the valve sunk almost .200. Are you also aware that the exh valves had rotators on them? ...
How well they work in "this" application ? .... the proof is in the pudding. Chrysler really did their home-work on these heads.
You question the valve size ? ..... at under 3k rpm? ....why?
In the industrial engine, yes, Chrysler did their homework and I'm sure the valve size is great for that application. A motorhome? I don't know. First you've got more cubic inches to feed. There's no getting around that. Then you're not running at a constant speed like you are with a stationary industrial engine. I think the small valve may narrow the power band. Under 3000 RPM may be fine for you, but for me, climbing steep hills and sometimes towing a car trailer, there are times were the RPM in my motorhome goes over 3000 RPM.
Honestly? It may work fine. Chrysler used the bigger valves in all the 440's they built though. They never saw the need to use a smaller valve.
Try it and report back. Its got me curious.