Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: How many of us are there? Owners of Dodge based RV's?

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Topic: How many of us are there? Owners of Dodge based RV's?

Posted By: Griff in Fairbanks on 06/01/17 11:42pm

Ballenxj wrote:

Griff in Fairbanks wrote:

On the other hand, I still have the needle-nose pliers and continue to use them, as recently as yesterday. (Those needle-nose pliers are still my favorite ... I haven't found any others that serve as well for general all-around use.)

Griff, if you ever get the chance, try a set of needle nose pliers made by a company that bears the name Wiha. These are carried by Boker distributors, as in Boker Knives. Made in Germany, and fine precision tools. No, I don't work for them. I recently found their tools in an electronics supply store too.

Thank you for the suggestion. I've already checked out their website.

I already have several needle-nose pliers, in various sizes and from multiple companies. However, just like carpenters have favorite hammers and chefs have favorite knives, I really like my old needle-nose pliers.

On the other hand, I plan to buy a better crimper for crimp-on wire terminals/connectors so I'll definitely consider Wiha.

Where a tool is made is not necessarily an indication of quality. Fifty years ago, Taiwan had a reputation for shoddy, substandard products. Since then, some of their companies have made significant improvements, to the point where some of their tools are equal to or better than tools made in the U.S.

On the other hand, Germany has long enjoyed a reputation for precision engineering and manufacturing, which included tools. (During the Cold War, West Germany maintained that reputation while East Germany slid backwards.) However, there is one major German company whose products I flat refuse to buy, due to a completely dismal experience with one of their tools and their customer service.

Finally, "Made in USA" isn't, and never has been, a completely reliable indicator of quality. Some U.S. companies once had a stellar reputation but have fallen drastically in terms of quality, mostly due to mismanagement. Likewise, some companies that were bottom tier have managed to improve to the point where their products are now top-of-the-line.

The bottom line is: Buyer beware. Read reviews, be open minded, examine similar tools from multiple manufacturers, and follow your instincts.

I should also note I sometimes buy less-than-the-best tools, especially when I know I'll only be using them a few time and can't borrow or rent them. In those cases, I view them as low-cost "disposable" tools needed to complete a task.

* This post was edited 06/01/17 11:53pm by Griff in Fairbanks *

1970 Explorer Class A on a 1969 Dodge M300 chassis with 318 cu. in. (split year)
1972 Executive Class A on a Dodge M375 chassis with 413 cu. in.
1973 Explorer Class A on a Dodge RM350 (R4) chassis with 318 engine & tranny from 1970 Explorer Class A

Posted By: Griff in Fairbanks on 06/02/17 03:44am

At this point, I was tempted to continue along the same vein, discussing what you need to know, in terms of tools, supplies, and techniques, to work on motor vehicle electrical systems.

However, I realized it's equally important to understand the what as well as the how. So, I decided I should do things in parallel, bouncing back and forth between the what and the how.

Many people, when they set out to understand a complex system, start with the details and work upward and outward towards a complete picture. I know, from observation, that this approach works for some people. However, I've also seen evidence this can cause difficulties and create confusion and misconceptions.

On the other hand, some people prefer to start with the big picture, working downward and inward towards the details. I lean towards this approach, while understanding this approach can also cause problems similar to the previous approach.

In the computer software industry, the first approach is called bottom-up analysis and design and the second called top-down analysis and design. Decades ago, there were a lot of academic arguments regarding these two approaches, with most arguments boiling down to "my way is better than your way because ..."

I am definitely a top-down person so we're going to start with the big picture, breaking up a motorhome's total electrical system into cohesive parts (i.e., subsystems). We will then examine each subsystem, breaking up each subsystem into cohesive sub-subsystems. We'll continue this iterative process until we reach an understanding of individual circuits and components and exactly how they fit into the whole picture.

So, to start, the majority of all recreational vehicles (that includes motorhomes) have two electrical systems that are effectively completely separate. These are the 120/240VAC system and the 12VDC system.

(VAC = volts alternating current and VDC = volts direct current)

While the two systems are effectively separate, there are a few specific points where they are interconnected. One of these is battery chargers, which convert 120VAC into 12VDC suitable for recharging and maintaining batteries. Another is transformers and bridge rectifiers that convert 120VAC into 12VDC suitable for providing power to 12VDC lights and devices while connected to "shore" power.

("Shore" power is a term taken from boat people and describes being plugged into the same electrical grid -- on shore -- that provides electricity to homes and businesses.)

While battery chargers and transformers/rectifiers appear to be similar, they are functionally completely separate beasts and one cannot be substituted for the other without creating significant problems. (This substitution is the root of many of the problems found in older motorhomes.)

The third, and final, interconnection between the 120/240VAC and 12VDC systems is inverters, which convert 12VDC into 120VAC for household appliances and devices. The problem with inverters is, in order to produce 1 amp of !20VAC current, they have to draw 10 amps of 12VDC current from the battery. So, a deep cycle battery rated for 75 amp/hours (75 Ah C20 capacity) means it will last about 7-1/2 hours before being completely discharged when hooked to an inverter producing 1 amp of 120VAC. (This is a gross simplification for the purpose of avoiding a complex technical discussion.)

You should only connect inverters to deep cycle batteries or running vehicles with high output, fully functioning alternators. Connecting an inverter to an SLI (starter) battery is a quick way to severely shorten the life of that battery.

(SLI = starter/lights/ignition ... in other words, the standard motor vehicle battery versus a deep cycle battery.)

For now, we're going to ignore the motorhome's 120/240VAC system, primarily because it is essentially identical to a house's electrical system. Instead, we'll focus on the vehicle's 12VDC system.

In my next post, we'll start breaking down 12VDC systems into cohesive subsystems.

Oh, by the way ... 12VDC is a widely accepted but somewhat misleading term for motor vehicle electrical systems. 12VDC is nominal, with the actual voltage being roughly 14.5VDC.

* This post was edited 06/02/17 03:54am by Griff in Fairbanks *

Posted By: Leeann on 06/02/17 06:02am

I can watch my 440 running from the driver's seat. Prop up the cover and look down to the right.

Much more comfortable [emoticon]

'73 Concord 20' Class A w/Dodge 440 - see profile for photo

Posted By: Griff in Fairbanks on 06/02/17 04:24pm

Some quick notes before I go outside to do things I'm supposed to be doing ...

I've said before that I consider ammeters irrelevant in vehicles produced since the early 60's. They were relevant for motors with generators and early low-amperage alternators. In those cases, the ammeters typically had a scale ranging from -30 to +30 amps, which were able show relatively small changes in generator/alternator output and battery drain.

However, with newer high-output alternators, the scale needed to be significantly expanded, to a range as great as -120 to +120. The same small output/drain that caused visible needle movement in early ammeters causes barely perceptible needle movement in newer ammeters. In these cases, an old-skool "idiot" light is actually more useful for indicating system problems.

(The 65 amp alternator that were OEM equipment in our older Dodge motorhomes are actually considered quite small by today's standards.)

Equally important, ammeters are a royal pain it the *** to wire up, regardless of size.

So, I recommend disconnecting ammeters. You can even remove them and save them to show to your great-grandchildren when you launch into way-back-when stories.

Instead, use a voltmeter to monitor the operation of your vehicle's electrical system. Most motor vehicle voltmeters have a scale ranging 8 to 18 volts, which is a granularity that makes it easy to recognize significant changes in the electrical system's operation.

(In recent years, manufacturers have started shifting from ammeters to voltmeters for OEM equipment.)

Next, voltmeters and battery condition gauges appear to be similar but are actually significant different in function and purpose.

Voltmeters are used for the same purpose as ammeters, to display the operation of a vehicle's electrical system. While they can display how much a battery is being drained, their main purpose is to indicate problems in the electrical system. A steady decrease in system voltage indicates the alternator is not producing current. Conversely, an unusually high system voltage indicates the alternator is producing too much current, potentially overcharging and cooking the battery as well as possibly frying system components.

(Detecting an overrunning alternator is difficult with an ammeter.)

Voltage regulators essentially do the same thing as voltmeters ... measuring and monitoring system voltage. Instead of displaying system voltage, voltage regulators control the alternator based on system voltage. When system voltage drops to a certain point, the voltage regulator turns on (energizes) the alternator field, causing the alternator to begin producing current. In turn, when the voltage rises to a certain point, the regulator turns off the field, causing the alternator to stop producing current.

On the other hand, battery condition gauges monitor how much a battery is being used, typically by displaying the percentage of charge remaining in the battery. (Battery condition gauges are sometimes called battery condition indicators, abbreviated as BCI.)

Unlike voltmeters, which are intended to be actively connected to the electrical system on a continuous basis, battery condition gauges are intended to be used briefly on a periodic basis, for no more than a minute at a time. The circuit for a battery condition gauge should include a momentary on-off switch because leaving the gauge continuously connected causes unnecessary battery drain.

These gauges cannot accurately display the battery's condition when the battery is being recharged, either via an alternator or battery charger. Most battery condition gauges have section of their scale that indicates the battery is being recharged/charging.

Note: To get an accurate reading of a battery's charge, a load (such as an incandescent light) should be applied, at least briefly, before pressing the gauge's momentary switch. This shifts the battery from a resting state to an active state.

So, voltmeters are appropriate for connection to an engine's electrical system while battery condition gauges are better suited to monitoring a motorhome's deep cycle ("house") battery bank.

Finally, based on my experience, the 65 amp OEM alternators in older Dodge motorhomes rarely fail. Their bearings and brushes may wear out over lengthy periods (decades?) of use but, unlike many other alternators, the diodes (in the bridge rectifier) are robust enough to still be serviceable when the bearings/brushes wear out.

Unfortunately, people tend to think about the alternator when their charging system fails. Usually, in older Mopar vehicles, it's the voltage regulator that causes the charging system problems rather than the alternator. Over the years, I've seen many, many cases were people have spent a lot of money to replace the alternator, to only find out it didn't solve their problem.

Replacement voltage regulators are relatively inexpensive while replacing an alternator usually causes a serious dent in one's budget. I've personally experienced a lazy/incompetent technician telling me the alternator was bad and had to replaced when the problem was actually a bad voltage regulator. Furthermore, I firmly believe some shops rely on people's lack of understanding to pad their profit margin by unnecessarily replacing a more expensive alternator instead of just replacing a comparatively inexpensive voltage regulator. (In addition to the cost of the components, alternators require more labor to replace than voltage regulators, further padding their profit margin.)

Enough ... got to get back to working on other things.

Posted By: Wolf_n_Kat on 06/02/17 09:13pm

Hey guys, haven't had a chance to check in, been a little 'busy', if you know what I mean. A couple of years ago Kat had an episode with Valley Fever that left a quarter-sized hole in the upper lobe of her left lung. The Dr's said it would be nothing to worry about, would probably collapse in on itself.

Well, Tuesday it did, in a big way. When I woke up, she said to call 911, she thought she was having a heart attack.

Long story short (I know, too late, right??), that quarter-sized hole ended up being the size of a small grapefruit. This morning the Dr's did a lobotomy... No, lobectomy! Geez, I hope they didn't get it confused too! Anyway, they did a lobectomy and a thora-somethingorother. She pulled through okay, but I've been chalking up lots of miles on the Explorer (and my butt!) running between Doyle and Reno.

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll trace the other side of the relay when I get a chance but right now, the Dodge is a low-priority item.

Posted By: Leeann on 06/03/17 07:42am

Holy cow!

I'm glad she's pulling through, but that had to be seriously scary.

I'm stuck inside for two weeks. Three deer ticks on me from one day, two of them gave me a bullseye. So I'm on doxycycline and banned from sun exposure (I'm already pale).

Posted By: Griff in Fairbanks on 06/03/17 04:05pm

Wolf_n_Kat wrote:

My wife and I are praying for successful, speedy recovery for Kat. We also can empathize with what you're going through and how much this probably worries you.

Thoracic refers to the upper abdomen and chest so your "thora-somethingorother" probably is a specific type of thoracic surgery or treatment.

The fact you're using your Explorer to commute indicate it doesn't have any (or too serious) issues. In view of your situation, it's good to think "As long as it keeps working, I'm not going to worry about it."

When things calm down and get reasonably close to normal, check to see if that wire is hot, both when the ignition switch is off and when the engine is running. It'll be a bit more difficult but also check when the switch is in the START position.

Easiest and least expensive is to use an incandescent (ordinary) lightbulb and socket. Connect one socket wire to the questionable wire and the other to a known-good ground or the battery's negative post. (Battery's negative post is best because it represents a known-good ground.)

If you position the lightbulb so you can see it from the driver's seat, you can test the START position by yourself. (Otherwise, you'll need one person to watch the bulb while someone else cranks the engine.)

Let us know if the bulb lights up during any of these tests. Also, let us know if anything happens that's different from normal, including when you initially connect the lightbulb.

(No need to check the ACC position as anything receiving power at that setting also gets power when the switch is in the RUN position.)

Do not try applying power to that wire. (i.e., connect it to the battery's positive terminal or any other positive power sources.) Without knowing a lot more about that particular solenoid and how it works, we cannot predict what might happen, including the possibility of an unpleasant or damaging event.

Posted By: Griff in Fairbanks on 06/03/17 04:18pm

Leeann wrote:

I'm stuck inside for two weeks. Three deer ticks on me from one day, two of them gave me a bullseye. So I'm on doxycycline and banned from sun exposure (I'm already pale).

No fun. Growing up at the end of the road in northern Minnesota, I still remember our nightly tick-checks. (Strip down completely while Mom checks every square inch of our bodies.)

I've never had a reaction to a tick bite so I don't know what that's like.

In terms of the antibiotic, it's better to be safe than sorry. From literature, I know Lyme disease is unpleasant and dangerous.

On the other hand, being pale is a sign of beauty and wealth in some cultures ... ;-p

Posted By: Griff in Fairbanks on 06/03/17 04:20pm

P.S. Maybe you can get your husband to do regular tick-checks on you ... I'll bet he won't complain.

Posted By: Leeann on 06/03/17 04:23pm

He's the one that found them [emoticon]

And got them completely off - the doc told me to compliment him (apparently most people don't).

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