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Open Roads Forum  >  RV Pet Stop  >  Dogs

 > Do you really love your Dog? Good food vs cheap food.

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Fabguy

Auburn, Washigton

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Posted: 02/07/12 12:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Leo's been getting this Natural Balancesince we got him.

It was recommended by his trainer due to very low grain or no content. Her reasoning was that dogs only need carbs and protein. He's a little chunkier than his litter mates (who live in the area and we see on occasion) but his coat is much softer and he is just as energetic and he just looks better.

The litter mates get Purina ONE and IAMS....


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Klueck

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Posted: 02/07/12 06:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks for the tip. We have been looking for a good food for our kitties and will give their Felidae a try.

nabi

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Posted: 02/07/12 07:09am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2 of my chihuahuas are on No Grains Buffalo and do very well..the third is on a homemade puree d/t her MegaEsophagus...Bella (on the puree) would love to get some of the NG buffalo and the other 2 try their darnedest to get some of her puree....the old "grass is always greener " situation ! I would feed them all home made if it wasn't for the time factor...its tricky to make sure all of the nutrition needs are being met and with their different weights it would just be too much for me with all time needed for the eye gtts, meds etc....I work full time and luckily can pop into the house anytime to give the meds... gtts etc or give Bella her chest physio ..

dgo1369

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Posted: 02/07/12 07:36am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Pawz4me wrote:

dgo1369 wrote:

I'd be surprised to see it as an ingredient in any feed these days after all the fuss we breeders and show people put up about the subject 25 years or so ago.


Dog food manufacturers don't have to list ingredients that they themselves don't add to the food. I believe menhaden fish is one common pet food ingredient for which ethoxyquin is often used as a preservative, but it would be used by the supplier of the fish. So even though it's there, it wouldn't have to be listed as an ingredient on a dog food label.


IF that is true now, and I have no reason to doubt what you say, it is probably because of the uproar we created 25 years ago when ethoxyquin WAS listed as an ingredient. Generally speaking, most serious breeders/show people are aware of what product may include a potentially harmful preservative and avoid it like the plague.


Dennis Osha


dturm

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Posted: 02/07/12 07:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I am amused by the low fat diets. We treat inflammatory and skin problems by ADDING fats, granted they are specific Omegas and fatty acids. Dogs and cats just don't have the problem with cholesterol, triglycerides and fats that people do. In 34 years of practice, I can count on one hand the number of dogs I've seen that have had these problems.

The only reasons to limit fat is in calorie control, a very good reason considering that fat has more calories per weight than any other food stuff, and "quality of stools" and diseases like pancreatitis. Some dogs do get loose stools with higher fat content foods and high fat foods can lead to bouts of pancreatitis in susceptible individuals.

Doug, DVM


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dgo1369

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Posted: 02/07/12 09:03am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dturm wrote:

I am amused by the low fat diets. We treat inflammatory and skin problems by ADDING fats, granted they are specific Omegas and fatty acids. Dogs and cats just don't have the problem with cholesterol, triglycerides and fats that people do. In 34 years of practice, I can count on one hand the number of dogs I've seen that have had these problems.

The only reasons to limit fat is in calorie control, a very good reason considering that fat has more calories per weight than any other food stuff, and "quality of stools" and diseases like pancreatitis. Some dogs do get loose stools with higher fat content foods and high fat foods can lead to bouts of pancreatitis in susceptible individuals.

Doug, DVM


I've never really understood this either and have never fed my dogs "diet" foods. I have to admit, however, that since dogs don't have the same cholesterol, heart and stroke problems that people do, that I've been tempted to eat their food! With all the pills I hve to take to control those problems, something HAS to be better! (Yes, I'm joking).

dturm

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Posted: 02/07/12 10:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I'm having a little trouble with the "facts" being stated in this thread. I've done a pretty thorough search on my veterinary sources and have found little evidence that ethoxyquin in the levels currently in food have been shown to cause the maladies described. There are dozens of websites citing "facts" with no supporting evidence, just supposition and opinion by interested individuals.

From DogAware.com wrote:

Some dog breeders and consumer advocates suspect ethoxyquin of causing cancer, though studies don’t seem to bear that out except at very high levels (5,000 ppm or more). On this point, the EPA concluded, “potential cancer risk is below the Agency’s level of concern.” The artificial preservatives BHA and BHT are considered more likely carcinogens.

BHA and BHT are used in human and pet foods to keep fats from going rancid. Both have been linked to cancer in laboratory animals; it’s unknown whether they cause the same in people and dogs. There is evidence that certain people may have difficulty metabolizing BHA and BHT, resulting in health and behavior changes. Again, we don’t know if the same is true for our dogs.


The thing is, we don't really know AND there is a reasonable alternative to using BHA, BHT and ethoxyquin by using tocoperol, vitamin C and other natural products.

While the risk may be overblown, since there are alternatives I agree it would be prudent to choose foods without these additives.

Doug, DVM

BCSnob

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Posted: 02/07/12 11:14am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BTW all of these chemicals (BHA, BHT, ethoxyquin, tocoperols, and vitamin C) are anti-oxidants and prevent spoilage by the same mechanism (preventing oxidation). All of these have been demonstrated as having anti-cancer properties by the same anti-oxidant mechanism. All have been demonstrated to increase the risk of certain cancers while suppressing the risk of other cancers.

* This post was edited 02/07/12 11:28am by BCSnob *

dgo1369

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Posted: 02/07/12 01:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dturm wrote:

I'm having a little trouble with the "facts" being stated in this thread. I've done a pretty thorough search on my veterinary sources and have found little evidence that ethoxyquin in the levels currently in food have been shown to cause the maladies described. There are dozens of websites citing "facts" with no supporting evidence, just supposition and opinion by interested individuals.

From DogAware.com wrote:

Some dog breeders and consumer advocates suspect ethoxyquin of causing cancer, though studies don’t seem to bear that out except at very high levels (5,000 ppm or more). On this point, the EPA concluded, “potential cancer risk is below the Agency’s level of concern.” The artificial preservatives BHA and BHT are considered more likely carcinogens.

BHA and BHT are used in human and pet foods to keep fats from going rancid. Both have been linked to cancer in laboratory animals; it’s unknown whether they cause the same in people and dogs. There is evidence that certain people may have difficulty metabolizing BHA and BHT, resulting in health and behavior changes. Again, we don’t know if the same is true for our dogs.


The thing is, we don't really know AND there is a reasonable alternative to using BHA, BHT and ethoxyquin by using tocoperol, vitamin C and other natural products.

While the risk may be overblown, since there are alternatives I agree it would be prudent to choose foods without these additives.

Doug, DVM


I'm not sure why I keep whipping a dead horse but I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment.

Your comments, as expected, are made from a scientific basis based on your years of experience and I accept them. Perception, however, is sometimes as strong as science, even more so, and that is PART of the reason that those in the dog breeding/showing world refuse to use anything associated with ethoxiquin and some other preservatives.

For those who may be interested, just Google "ethoxiquin" and try to ignore the emotional aspects.

Doug, I found your last sentence particularly telling.

doc brown

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Posted: 02/07/12 02:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My side kick gets what the breeder used (Innova) and then I give him raw as well as cooked meat. He also loves a variety of nuts that I eat.


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