Brent and Gina
Arkansas
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BroncosFan wrote:google glacial silt and drown
Ah, getting stuck in quicksand-like mud and drowning as tide comes in. Thank you. Keep 'em coming.
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Francesca Knowles
Port Hadlock, Washington
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Brent and Gina wrote: What kind of oceanic issues from tides or other cause? If you can elaborate, I'd appreaciate it.
An outgoing tide can very easily take you out to sea and unless you know how to "steer" your way out of its grip, you're going.
Regardless of any motor that will fit on a kayak....
And then there are riptides, more properly called Ripcurrents.
Since kayaks were literally invented by Arctic People they're obviously well suited to the environment, but it takes training to use them safely in such relatively inhospitable waters.
It's true that guided kayak trips are expensive, but there must be inexpensive courses available. If you're determined to go ocean kayaking I strongly recommend you take one.
Otherwise you might be better off confining your kayaking to the many lakes and rivers (upstream of intertidal zones) that Alaska has to offer.
* This post was
edited 01/26/12 01:35pm by Francesca Knowles *
" Not every mind that wanders is lost. " With apologies to J.R.R. Tolkien
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PA12DRVR
Anchorage, AK
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I'd second everything that Joe b. said. Key points are;
- Hypothermia will get you quicker and more likely than anything else. One cannot, IMNSHO, be prepared for the cold temps of Alaska freshwater in the summer, much less saltwater; stay dry, stay near shore, stay safe
- The wind (particularly if one is wet, see above) can cause safety issues. More frequently, it can cause difficulty in going to where you want to be in the water, particularly on lakes. As Joe said, stay off Skilak, or at least stay near shore.
- WRT to bears, I've lived up here most of my life (other than that unfortunate stint in Texas) and have never seen a bear that I didn't want to see; of course, there's probably a 12' brownie with a sore tooth just waiting to see me next spring.  Keep a clean camp and use common sense and bears won't be a problem.
- There are multiple lakes all along the road system where one can paddle for a few hours for enjoyment and if you want to cover some distance, there are canoe/kayak trails scattered throughout southcentral (probably elsewhere too, I just haven't paddled much elsewhere)
- I agree that one should watch out for tides and for sealife, but that can be handled; if you want to go in the saltwater, I'd stick to sheltered waters and would not take a trip "overwater" without getting some local input first. I was in my buddy's boat one time and we had to pick up some kayakers who got worn out paddling from Homer to Seldovia. They were so tired that we literally had to lift them into the boat. They hadn't planned properly.
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afraid of bears
Prince George Area
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We've been kayaking in lakes and on the inside waters for many years and we're still around. Common sense is the key to a safe trip. If the weather looks crappy, don't go. If you don't have the necessary safety equipment, don't go. If the water looks too fast or too rough, don't go. If the water looks too busy, don't go. Don't overestimate your abilities, and be prepared.
Two years ago, I had a very large Loon take offence to me paddling too close to his family. I didn't realize how large a wingspan they had until he came straight at me screaming and appearing to run across the water several times. While on Meziadan Lake, I came across a grizzly tearing apart a beaver lodge. He was a little perturbed by my presence, but he settled down as I backed away. Believe it or not, we have met black bears and moose swimming across lakes. We met a bunch of very inquisitive sea otters on Ressurection Bay a few years back.
Enjoy your trip.
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agesilaus
North Florida
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BroncosFan wrote:google glacial silt and drown .
Now that was informative, especially the helicopter story.
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AKsilvereagle
North Pole, Alaska
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I only have personal experience while boating in a canoe or scanoe within Interior Alaska waters, as everyone covered all bases on this topic already however I will also share my insight.
Cold Water : It is no joke... (except for one location) every place I canoed at in streams, sloughs, rivers, gravel pits, ponds and lakes here in the interior, you are lucky to ever see the water temperature reach 60 degrees F during mid summer anywhere.
Minto Flats (located at the village of Minto in the Yukon Flats region) is the only body of water I have witnessed to where it is warm during June and July on sunny days as I submerged a thermometer in the water which read between 65 and 72 degrees F....This area of water is actually the Tolovana River waterway which can turn into a lake or series of lakes if the water is very high, and when the water is low it is pretty much nothing but sloughs and streams with mud islands....This area is known as one of the best northern pike fishing in the Alaska Interior.
Lakes, gravel pits and ponds tend to stay on the cool-cold side of water temperatures throughout the summer as they completely thaw the latest averaging around mid May timeframe, as rivers will flow open channels of water during April when above freezing outdoor temperatures exist which will thaw out sooner than bodies of water such as lakes.
Also remember that every 'breakup' thawing (post spring season) is different by two factors : How much snowfall that exists, and how cool or warm the temperatures are for an early or late spring which tend to determine low levels or high levels of water, not to mention potential ice jams under the right elements....Cool spring temperatures with lots of snow still waiting to melt is a recipe for disaster for those who do not check high level or flood stage adviseries upon small watercrafts waiting to dip in the first series of nice summer days to follow as late snowmelt will accelerate added water to high levels and create stronger currents - very fast.
Many rivers in Alaska are also glacier fed, which add to the danger not only the existing cold temperature factor, but also the mass silt it contains which will sink anything like lead if it has a pocket to fill, let alone the strong currents and undertoe....Much added rainfall and or above average warm temperatures will add even more high levels of water in these mighty rivers particularly in July and sometimes during August.
Hyperthermia : I experienced this once and got a taste of the effects and it is not pleasant at all while I was fishing in a slough during September...Temperature in the low 50's F and underestimated the water temperature when I caught three grayling on barbless hooks while catching and releasing them, by keeping the fish submerged in the water....My hand became so disabled and useless before I knew it and in comparison was much worse than having brutal cold hands while working extensively outside at -40 below, it was to the point I had to have my friend guide the canoe back to the launch area two miles away as I was in no condition to steer as my hand was still freezing despite being well dressed and placing gloves on afterwards trying to warm my hand back up....I have a much better perspective and respect for open water since that day.
The newest provision in Alaska this past summer is now mandatory that every adult in all types of watercraft are to have a personal floatation device onboard as it was merely an option for adults before...Children 13 and under must wear their PFD as that had not changed.....I only wore my PFD when I came across stronger river current that I dared to take my canoe on or when floating on large lakes.
Wind : There is nothing like a nice calm and sunny day on a lake with your old fiberglass canoe with only paddle propulsion to a place like out in the middle of Quartz Lake near Delta Junction, then four hours later getting hit by an unexpected gust with constant stormy winds, followed by choppy waves, with huge lightning strikes surrounding the area enough to scare the daylights out of you, only to drift out of control to the shoreline well away from the boat launch or beach area you were trying to row back to, and having to 'walk the canoe on a ropeleash' along the long shoreline in tallgrass to mudmuck terrain back to point A where you actually started, in the torrential rain of course....Thank god whoever invented leg waders because they were well worth the $30 when I purchased them in Valdez, and much cheaper priced versus Fairbanks.
Needless to say this was the last time for me in a flatbottom fiberglass canoe out in the open lake as I went broke on two paychecks and upgraded to a new scanoe with a thrust electric motor.
One advantage of having a canoe when anchored is having the wind at your back as the tip of the canoe will always point downwind.
I ended up in a situation once where I was on a slough waterway heading back to point A while cruising downstream (as I always make a habit going upstream direction first on my slough-river round trip travels), then this powerful headwind came out of nowhere and it was constant....so powerful I had the troller motor on max 5 speed and I was still losing ground and not gaining distance, while going backwards on a downstream waterway at full prop speed, unreal....Had to anchor down and wait it out for about 40 minutes before the winds calmed down some as I finally made it back.
Wildlife : Canoeing out in the woods tends to make things interesting at times as you never know what to expect, as the only encounter I had worth mentioning here is being anchored in a slough while fishing....Seeing a bull, cow and calf moose playing around and being themselves on the riverbank as they had not noticed me and the dog in the middle of the water until the cow moose finally spotted us (30 feet away) and stopped playing and just stared before the other two took notice of us....The bull was staring me down for a minute as all three moose were just hanging out minding their own in the same spot for the next 10 minutes.
Three beavers were swimming around the boat minding their own, a flock of loon ducks were drifting as things were quiet and they didn't even mind us....Then out of the blue the beavers and all the ducks at the exact same time bolted and bailed out of sight real fast and disappeared as something seemed to startle them, then 20 seconds later there was this bald eagle that appeared out of nowhere casing the path of the slough while flying pretty low, spotted me and the dog as this eagle squawked at us and circled five times over the canoe while still flying pretty low, it was very intimidating as I thought it might attack and thinking I might have to take evasive action on this federally protected bird in order to protect my dog, boy this isnt a good situation but then the bald eagle finally moved on.
Mudflats : Since the saltwater and ocean areas were mentioned, I just would like to add when the tide goes out, these mudflats are an illusion of land but in reality is bottomless ocean floor of water saturated quicksand, for example the area I am referring to is Turnagain Arm and Cook Inlet in the Anchorage and Southcentral Alaska area of coastline, that generally develops around 20 foot tides when it comes in (I was also told as much as 40 ft tides depending on conditions and certain coastal areas), bore tides exist once a month, very strong current, not to mention the constant strong winds there that has marine advisories or warnings for small craft boats practically everyday, these are dangerous and real cold waters.....People have gotten killed walking along these dangerous mudflat areas while disregarding all the posted warning signs by getting stuck and sinking slow, then not being rescued in time by the time the tide comes in at a fast rate.
I remember some part of an article back in 2003 or so upon an Alaska Native that was featured in the Anchorage Daily News as he was spotted in a kayak jammin out in these waters paddling away while the tide was going out, not an advisable thing to do but this person claims on doing this on occasion... and he makes it all the way to Fire Island for god sake from Knik Arm.
I went in my canoe along an outside channel of the mighty Tanana River one day and stopped on this stretch of land on the other side of the channel, turned out to be waterlogged mud that looked solid as I went to step out of the boat only to find my leg stuck and could not get out of it until I unsnapped the leg wader and got back in the canoe...Trying to think on how I might get my wader back, looked upstream and seen a piece of plywood laying there as I retrieved it and went back to the sight where my wader was stuck in the mud and used the plywood to brace on and got enough leverage within reach and tugged my wader out, finally got it back.
Boaters : This is in my opinion the most dangerous element of my canoe experiences that you have no control over despite how many safeguards a person takes with all the experienced boating they have, is the type of boaters that do not practice safety measures while having no consideration for other boaters...there are a handful of novices running powerboats.
I avoid one lake here where they have too much powerboat traffic with lots of summer homes, I have avoided the Chena River drifting downstream thru Fairbanks the past 12 years because of the increased powerboat traffic no matter what day of the week it is, as a small portion of boaters will speed a lot going around blind curves like they're equipped with brakes and think they have total control, and a few others will not slow down for small boaters going by as you have to square up to hit the large wake that comes at you to avoid capsizing.
I have witnessed two potential disasters along the Chena River by boaters speeding and having to take evasive action as they missed colliding within a few feet of each boat, as one boat sailed across a sandbar and back in the water.
The most unexpected encounter for me was on the Salcha River in my friend's powerboat as we were anchored late in the evening fishing away as all you could hear was waterflow and conversation, then this *SMACK* on impact occured as we were all like what tha...., as this unmanned smaller riverboat drifted and collided into us as we never noticed it or seen it coming, barely clipped the back corner of the boat we were in and man we were lucky it wasn't a worse case scenario, chased down the boat and we all grabbed the rope and towed it to a clear portion of a bank and tied it down (much better than the boat owner had done)....two hours later there was a man out of breath yelling across at us asking if we seen this boat go by as the owner of the boat I was in gave the guy a good lecture when we went close to shore, as he told the guy he was lucky he didnt let the boat drift all the way to the Tanana River and it was tied up and secured just downstream as he is going to report this incident to the troopers and file a civil suit for the minor damage done to his boat....he met up at the boat launch and compensated $300, turned out not to be a dull moment that day.
As far as the Kenai Peninsula and Southcentral Areas, I never boated in those areas except Nancy Lake once by renting a canoe for a couple of hours since it was a splendid day.
I just checked the outside temperature here as it is now currently -56 below F, it had reached -52 below F yesterday surpassing the -50 mark first time this winter....it's been a real cold January and cannot wait for summer now.
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sirdrakejr
Las Vegas, Nevada
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Quote: "Mudflats : Since the saltwater and ocean areas were mentioned, I just would like to add when the tide goes out, these mudflats are an illusion of land but in reality is bottomless ocean floor of water saturated quicksand, for example the area I am referring to is Turnagain Arm and Cook Inlet in the Anchorage and Southcentral Alaska area of coastline, that generally develops around 20 foot tides when it comes in (I was also told as much as 40 ft tides depending on conditions and certain coastal areas), bore tides exist once a month, very strong current, not to mention the constant strong winds there that has marine advisories or warnings for small craft boats practically everyday, these are dangerous and real cold waters.....People have gotten killed walking along these dangerous mudflat areas while disregarding all the posted warning signs by getting stuck and sinking slow, then not being rescued in time by the time the tide comes in at a fast rate."
I had a friend pass away last month that had lost a son on the flats of Turnagain Arm. He walked out thinking it was solid and could not escape the incoming tide. As far as I know the boy's body was never recovered. That was in the early 80s. The danger has not changed since then.
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sue.t
Ibex Valley, Yukon
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Search YouTube using "Turnagain Arm Bore Tide". See the wicked tide for yourself. While some playboaters would find that tide fun, I sure wouldn't!
DH fishes from his "freighter" of a kayak ... a hardshell kayak intended for open water kayaking. Some times he heads out in the calm water and in a period of 10 minutes the wind rises to a point of making it difficult to return to camp. Initially we had a canoe, but he couldn't always make it back on his own. With the kayak he can.
One time he snagged a 37" pike. Aggressive fish, these ones. There was no way he could get it in the kayak ... instead he let it tow him around the lake for about 20 minutes. When it finally played itself out, DH paddled to shore, got out, and then reeled in the pike.
On a clear day, or on an evening with the sun setting, it can be an amazing experience to be on a lake with your boat. BUT be prepared to camp out should the wind come up and blow you down the lake. Be prepared to have a fish take you on a tour of its waters.
But also be prepared to catch fish like this ...
And enjoy evenings like this:
sue t.
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alaskan-rver
Anchorage, AK
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Keep in mind that the rivers up here are FAST--typically running 5 mph or better. As others have said, plan on sticking to lakes and sheltered coves.
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resmas
Alaska
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There are LOTS of place that will take you out canoeing/kayaking/rafting anywhere that conditions are safe enough for a "newbie" to do so. I would suggest checking into their services. Also, there are 2-for-1 coupons in the Nothern Lights and the TourSaver books.
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