Ivylog
Blairsville, Ga. USA
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Ok, educate me on why a 5er needs 20% +/- pin weight when a TT does fine with 10%? I thought 5ers were more stable than TT.
This post is my opinion (free advice). It is not intended to influence anyone's judgment nor do I advocate anyone do what I propose.
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JRS & B
Florida/Michigan
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I think that based on dry weight alone, a fiver can have a pin weight of as little as 17%. It is all the stuff that goes in the basement storage, plus maybe a washer/dryer, and some fresh water that creates the 20 to 25% values. And some, like mine, just have proportionately higher pin weight ratio from the getgo. You really cannot generalize.
I have always assumed the high weight ratio could be handled by a fiver because the weight is directly over the axle, as opposed to hanging out on the back where leverage comes into play. And, you really don't want the fiver pin to come up off the hitch while going up a hill.
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laknox
Arizona
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Take the dry pin wt., divide by the dry wt. then multiply by the GVW. This will give you an =estimate= of the pin wt. at GVW. Depending on how you load, where your tanks are, etc., this # will change; the only way to know for sure is to weight the rig, which is sorta hard to do when you don't yet own it. I've harped for years that the mfrs. need to provide us with tankage plans so we know were the loads are carried by the trailer. Personally, I travel with empty tanks whenever possible and will shift loads if I feel I'm a touch heavy on the pin. Even moving all your bottled water/soda to the back (or front) can make a difference.
Lyle
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kaydeejay
SE Michigan, USA
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Ivylog wrote:Ok, educate me on why a 5er needs 20% +/- pin weight when a TT does fine with 10%? I thought 5ers were more stable than TT. Fivers ARE more stable! Perhaps because they have more weight on the truck.
Also, that weight is directly over the axle, which inherently adds stability.
Besides, I wouldn't want to put 2500# dead weight on a bumper hitch as that would UNLOAD weight from the front axle. A fiver does not do that, in fact very little change in the front axle weight is normal.
Maybe that's more likely the logic - a TT tongue weight has to be lower because of where it is applied to the tow vehicle.
Keith J.
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BB_TX
McKinney, Texas
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Check some of the manufacturer's web sites and look at the specifications for different trailers. You will find that pin weights vary considerably, and not just getting heavier with larger trailers. In fact, some of the longer and heavier trailers may have lesser pin weights than some of the shorter lighter ones. Just a matter of floor plan, construction, and location of axles.
I have a 5er that is 34'-8" and the listed pin weight is 200#-400# heavier than seven of the 38'-4" floor plans of the same brand. All the floor plans vary by several hundred pounds.
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Dave&Monica
Ontario
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Our pin weight is 15% of the total camper weight unloaded or loaded. It is a rear kitchen design so once its loaded, the weight added in the kitchen area balances the weight added in the basement. It tows fine at 15% pin weight...no chucking.
The floor plan and the location of all the storage areas can give you a pretty good educated guess of what the pin weight will be loaded vs empty. The % pin weight empty is in all the manufacturers specs.
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newk
Gillette, WY
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bobbyg123 wrote:OK, 20% give or take. That's good to know. I'm glad I asked. With the campers we're considering, that still puts the pin weight around 2500lbs and I would assume that a newer 3/4 ton diesel truck with a 3100lb payload could handle that. After fuel and passengers, we'd be right around 2900lbs. Close, but we should be within the limits.
Get out your calculator and start adding:
Fuel: 37 gallons @ 7 lbs/gal= 260
Hitch: (will vary but average)= 150
Driver & passengers (4@ 160 ea.)= 640
Tools, firewood, genny, or whatever= 200
That comes to 1250 pounds, not 400!
All of this will vary. If you have kids the average weight won't be 160 each -- this year. But they'll grow. If you don't get a long box you may need a slider, and that'll weigh more. You might decide you want a tool box, a genny to run the a.c., maybe even extra fuel. My point is, 1250 lbs. would be a light to average number to use.
And I'm not too sure about this 3,100 lb. payload you're talking about. With a diesel? Crew cab? Automatic tranny? A little glitz?
And you're not even sure which 5er you want yet. Trust me, you don't want to be as limited as you would be with an F250. Go with a 1-ton. If you have regrets, it'll only be that you didn't get a dually!
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Allworth
Orlando, FL
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Yon cannot calculate pin weight. You can only measure it and that holds only for that moment in time.
Formerly posting as "littleblackdog"
Martha, Allen, & Blackjack
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FalconLover
Southern California (Whittier)
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bpounds wrote:The F250 and F350 have the same ride, and the same rear axle, even though Ford rates the rear axle differently. Insiders know they are actually the same Ford axle.
But, if you want to stay within the manufacturers rating, you can't load the rear axle of an F250 above 6,100#. Remember, almost none of the pin weight will be transferred to the front axle. It is all on the rear.
One of the main differences in a 250 and 350 is the height of the spacer block on the rear axle. The 350 sits higher at the rear, which means the truck squats less under a given load. Your 250 is going to sit low under that trailer, even if you manage to come in under the specs. So then you are looking at airbags, Timbrens, or even changing the Ford spacer block, just to get the ride leveled out on the truck. These can certainly be done.
Further, I don't think you have the correct values on the 250 GVWR if you are looking at crewcabs with the diesel engine. That truck maximum GVWR is 10,000#, and the crewcab with diesel engine is going to weigh around 7,500 before you put any people or stuff in it. The 350 truck weighs the same, but has a GVWR of up to 11,500. The 350 is ready for that trailer right off the showroom floor.
I see many things wrong with this reply but I'll stick with a few comments. The F250 & 350 DO NOT ride the same. I've owned both and there is a big difference. Also there is more than simple ride height blocks in these two trucks. Springs packs are one thing. Do you really think Ford just "jacked up" the rearend and then re-rated their trucks differently? 
Furthermore, not all of the weight is on the rear axle. Just because the hitch is closer to the axle doesn't mean ALL of the trailer weight sits on it. That is the main difference between a travel trailer and a 5th wheel. The trailers weight is moved forward like this to distribute the weight more evenly on the tow rig allowing heavier loads to be carried.
To get back to his original question on pin weights. The manufacturer of every trailer has that data so I'd check with them prior to purchase and not rely on some assumed percentage of the total trailer weight.
John
The Rutters
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kaydeejay
SE Michigan, USA
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FalconLover wrote:Furthermore, not all of the weight is on the rear axle. Just because the hitch is closer to the axle doesn't mean ALL of the trailer weight sits on it. That is the main difference between a travel trailer and a 5th wheel. The trailers weight is moved forward like this to distribute the weight more evenly on the tow rig allowing heavier loads to be carried.
John Gonna disagree with you on this comment.
MOST fiver hitch installations place the pin directly above or maybe an inch ahead of the rear axle. If yours is different, then the installer did it wrong!
Almost ALL the pin weight goes on the rear axle.
In my case my front axle load increases 20# with an 1800# pin weight on the hitch.
Hardly enough to comment about.
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