toban
Canada
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Joined: 10/31/2003
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I assume everyone who is in the U.S for more than 182 days over a 3 year period are filling out the "Closer Connection" form and sending it into the IRS before June 15 the following year? If not, you better think about it. It's available on the IRS website. It's form 8840.
The way you calculate this is:
Total number of days in the U.S in the current calender year
1/3 of the total days in the U.S. of the previous year
1/6 of the total days in the U.S of the 3rd year
If this calculates more than 182 days, the IRS can approach you for being a U.S. citizen for tax reasons. It can be quite messy.
The Snowbird Association have a handbook which explains this in greater detail but it's worth filling out the form and then it exempts you from being approached. Filling it out later is too late and won't work. All the agencies are working alot closer now with border patrol.
Just thought I'd pass this along.
Toban
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CardinalRule
Gimli, Manitoba (Summer) Yuma, Arizona (Winter)
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I have a lot of Canadian friends wintering in the South. I would estimate less than 1% fill out the form. I don't know of one person who has had a problem.
Dave
I RV, I Golf - Therefore I Am.
'03 F250 Crew Cab 6L PSD
05 Cardinal 30TS - Custom Paint, TrailAir suspension & Pin Box, & lots more goodies
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Tom N
Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Hawthorn, PA
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I have many Canadian friends that winter in the USA.
You seem to be well versed on this regulation. What is the penalty for non-compliance???
-Tom
Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Hawthorn, PA · W3TLN · FMCA 335149 · Mystic Knights of the Sea
2005 Suncruiser 38R · W24 chassis, no chassis mods needed · 2012 Honda Accord SE · 2008 Honda Odyssey EX-L
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pianotuna
Regina, SK, Canada
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Hi,
If you don't fill it out you get to pay both Canadian and US income tax.
Regards, Don
Kustom Koach Class C 28'5" 256 watts solar, 875 amp hours in two battery banks 12 volt batteries 2500 watt inverter.
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toban
Canada
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I was expecting to hear, "I'm not filling out any forms"! I know of 3 people who have been approached. I don't know them personally but have been told by good sources they have been approached. It's up to everyone to make their choices. I'm just telling you, you don't want to be challenged by the IRS as they have penalties for not filing. They have the freedom to do whatever they want to collect what they think is due to them at this point because of you being there longer than their law states as a Canadian. A tax lawyer is your next step. If you look at the form, it's very simple with no questions that are evasive. It just determines you have a closer connection to Canada than the U.S.
Instead of slufffing it off as many do, go to the Snowbird website and read it in detail. This is not fictional. Of course, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, so continue on if that is what one wants to do.
I'm just trying to put a heads up to all my fellow Snowbirds.
Toban
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Tom N
Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Hawthorn, PA
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Why go to the Snowbird website? I strongly suggest going to the irs.gov website.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8840.pdf
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michelb
Ottawa, ON, Canada
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I used to fill it out when I was working in the US so spending a lot more days there.
For snowbirds, I don't think it matters that much though. I think worst case is that the IRS would ask you to file income returns in the US at which time, you'd submit the 'closer connection' form and then you're done. Realistically though, as a Canadian snowbird, there's no reason the IRS would ever even contact you or think of contacting you. The only exception would be Canadians with a SS# and who have some income in the US. Toban is right on one thing though; if you don't file one and the IRS eventually does come after you and decides that you do in fact owe taxes in the US, you could be charged interest and penalties - if you've filed the 'closer connection' form, you'll find out right away if they don't accept it and would likely save the interest and penalties.
All that said though, I'm not an accountant - if there are other reasons, please let us know.
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bstark
Ontario, Canada
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Joined: 05/02/2004
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This is all factual stuff and has been around for eons. Having said that; the focus and intent of the form is to 'declare' your principal and financial footprint is in Canada or some country other than the U.S. for purposes of "income earned" and taxes paid on that income.
If you can prove that you do not earn taxable income from U.S. sources. You shouldn't have any nightmare other than a temporary beuraucratic one.
If however, you are attempting to fly under the radar with investments or even bank accounts in the U.S. in amounts that provide enough interest so as to comply with the definition of earned income, you're another matter entirely.
Another area of concern for the RV'er is "workcamping". You may not be earning direct income per-se but rather something deemed a "taxable benefit" by the IRS, such as a free site or some such arrangement that could raise a "flag". This would however require an audit of the facility your arrangement is with to bring this to light.
I doubt they will commence stopping you at the 'exit' booth to ask you these questions.
Today is just the tomorrow you worried about yesterday!
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michelb
Ottawa, ON, Canada
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bstark wrote:...
Another area of concern for the RV'er is "workcamping". You may not be earning direct income per-se but rather something deemed a "taxable benefit" by the IRS, such as a free site or some such arrangement that could raise a "flag". This would however require an audit of the facility your arrangement is with to bring this to light.
...
Workcamping is opening up a completely different can-of-worms. Without a work permit (so this excludes those with Greencards, dual-citizenship, etc), as a Canadian citizen, you pretty much can't do anything that resembles work in the US. As bstark mentioned, any sort of payment whether cash or goods or services is a no-no. Also even if you aren't getting paid, if you are doing something that someone else would normally get paid to do, you still need a work-permit.
It's not to say that you can't do work while you are in the US but without a work permit, you can't work for a US employer and you can't do anything where you benefit from being in the US (e.g. if you're an author, you can continue writing from the US or if you're a real estate agent, you can make / get calls or emails from people back home, or as a stock-broker, doing all his trades online, you can continue doing that, etc).
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toban
Canada
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How many people here who have answered my post have actually seen and read the closer connection form? I'm assuming from some reactions, there are alot of assumptions on the pupose of the form without reading it first. They are basic questions but I feel it's worth filing this than wonder what to do if I am picked and approached in the future. I carry the previous years forms with me when I'm crossing the border also.
Oh well, I thought I would just let my fellow snowbirds know with a heads up on the situation.
Toban
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