427435
Rochester, Mn
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Joined: 11/12/2005
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I'm not at all sure that no shock yields a smoother ride over small things like tar strips. Have you ever seen a trailer without shocks that has its wheels bouncing off the ground. Shocks would reduce (if not eliminate) that and yield a better ride. I think it has something to do with an un-dampened spring over traveling and causing a bigger total shock to whatever is on top of it.
The old OEM shocks (5-6 years old at the time) that I took off my F53 could be easily pulled out or pushed in by hand-----virtually no resistance. One really had to push hard (or pull) on the new Koni FSD's to move the rod. Once the Koni's were on, however, the ride was much, much smoother over tar strips and rough pavement.
However, what Brett says about getting your front wheels loaded up to near their rated capacity, along with correct air pressure (not too much), are important for a good ride.
Mark
2000 Itasca Suncruiser 35U on a Ford chassis, 65,000 miles
2003 Ford Explorer toad with US Gear brakes,
Ready Brute tow bar, and Demco base plate.
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topflite51
In The Desert of Nevada
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Joined: 05/13/2004
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I have no doubt that a properly loaded front end would benefit from FSD's. On lighter rigs, such as mine no benefit was felt from the installation of FSD's. I replaced 1 year old RV Magnums with the Koni's and I feel I wasted my money on hype, but that is the way it goes. The only way I can add any additional weight to the front end is to build some kind of extension in front of the axle and carry dead weight something I am not willing to do, rough ride be dam. The ride is what it is.
 David
Just rolling along enjoying life
w/F53 Southwind towing 87 Samurai looking to golf or fish
Simply Despicable 
Any errors are a result of CRS.
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robatthelake
Vancouver Island
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Joined: 08/24/2003
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I often wonder if there is a Time Frame or a Mileage Limit that might be applied to Shock replacement on large vehicles. On My Cars it is a simple matter to Bounce the vehicle and observe the recovery or lack of it, but on the motor home with Air Ride that doesn't work.
Any guidelines would be appreciated! Right now at around 40 K Miles The Thing rides like a Limo and handles really well, but I wonder if I will notice any change at 60 or 100 K?
Rob & Jean
98 Dutch Star Diesel Pusher ..92 Tracker 4X2
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wolfe10
Texas
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Joined: 10/08/2000
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Rob,
First, there were a WIDE variety of quality of shocks used as OE equipment. I now our coach came OE with Konis.
And there are three reasons I would replace shocks on a motorhome:
1. Fluid leakage (not just damp, but leaking).
2. Mechanically failed-- shocks or bushings.
3. They don't pass the "bounce test".
You mention that you do a bounce test on your car's shocks. Same for the motorhome. No, you can't test them by hand, but you can by driving over regular parking lot speed bumps at normal (low) speed. If an axle bounces more than 1.5 times they need replacement.
The only other reason to change is to go to a shock that works differently than the OE. An example would be the Koni FSD's.
Brett Wolfe
1993 Foretravel 36' U-240
Cat 3116, Allison 3060
FMCA Forum: www.community.fmca.com/index
Caterpillar RV Engine Owner's Club: www.catrvclub.org
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FIRE UP
Ramona, CA. USA
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Joined: 03/08/2004
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Gents,
Well, I did and didn't want to start a presidential debate over this but, I did want clarification on some of the suspension tactics. Bret confirmed my suspicions or my thoughts of a shock adding to the "tar strip or bridge crack" theory of a harsh ride. I know and understand the bouncing or porpoising effect of either no, or bad shocks. But one of you stated the Bilsteins are a gas shock and the FSDs are not. And, the fact that the Bilsteins being gas, will have a negative effect on a smooth ride because of their design.
If that theory is correct, and the FSDs have NO "dampening on the compression stroke" but that ALL of the dampening is on the rebound stroke, then I could see where a shock change to Konis would help with a rough ride. It won't cure it but, it may ease the jarring. To the one poster that made a correlation to a leaf sprung trailer without shocks, and it's bouncing all over the planet, yes I can see that and, that would be the shocks primary objective to "dampen" the rebound to stop the bouncing but yet, let the springs suck up the bumps.
But, like I and many others have stated, you MUST MATCH THE FRONT END WEIGHT TO THE SPRING CALIBRATION. Mine is so far off that it's unbelievable. A 100 gallon water tank all the way in the back, a 75 gallon fuel tank sitting right behind the rear axle, and to top it all off, the 14 gallon propane tank is sitting behind the right set of duals. I have thought about the Kelderman system many times but, like many of you also stated, that's a ton of money. So, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place or, should I say, a shock, a stiff spring, and an unbalanced load.
About the only thing I can do is form it up, and pour concrete all around the frame and engine, and, mix in some lead while I'm at it. We like our "boon dock" camping so, we carry a full tank of water and I like being able to go from San Diego all the way to Mesquite NV on the fuel I carry. (I hate stopping in Vegas) So, some might answer me in saying "carry less water and less fuel" to help balance your load. That's not why I bought a bigger coach, so I could be limited in travels and staying times.
Gents, thank you all for your expertise and advice and info here. I most certainly appreciate it.
Smitty,
Did you sell them? If not, let's get together. And thanks for the comment on the brother FFs in Colorado. I was on both the Cedar Fire and the '07 fire and once they get to that size, there's nothing on earth that can stop them. I hear even some of those boys and girls have lost their own homes in that Colorado fire. That's bad.
Scott
Scott and Karla
San Diego Fire Department RETIRED
2004 Itasca Horizon, 36GD Slate Blue 330 CAT
2011 White Honda CRV EX-L,4WD w/NAV Toad
2008 Caliente Red LVL II GL 1800 Goldwing
KI60ND
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SpursMVP
San Antonio, TX
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Joined: 07/25/2009
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topflite51 wrote:I have no doubt that a properly loaded front end would benefit from FSD's. On lighter rigs, such as mine no benefit was felt from the installation of FSD's. I replaced 1 year old RV Magnums with the Koni's and I feel I wasted my money on hype, but that is the way it goes. The only way I can add any additional weight to the front end is to build some kind of extension in front of the axle and carry dead weight something I am not willing to do, rough ride be dam. The ride is what it is.
When ordering my Bilsteins from Shox.com...this was the feeling I got from the sales rep. They sell both brands by the way.
What he did indicate was that I was coming from 9 year old Monroes so the new shocks would likely provide a very drastic improvement. Although the rep said the Koni's would be slightly better....he couldn't see spending twice the money.
Anyhow we get the new B's installed next week so I'll let you all know how the great experiment works.
2001 HR Endeavor
330 HP Cummins ISC
2006 Jeep Wrangler
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bcthunder
Kelowna BC Canada
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Joined: 08/06/2005
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My Coach is 10 years old with the OEM Bilstiens which do not leak and pass the speed bump test. As the ride is wonderful I can only conclude the shocks chosen match this Coach and so far they have not weakened enough to cause problems. I am very tempted to get FSDs at least on the front but do not know if the degree of improvement would be worth the expense.
My previous Coach was an 1999 F-53 35' and the previous owner had added Firestone airbags plus he had installed all 6 batteries in the engine compartment. Between these 2 modifications my ride appeared from the numerous posts I read to be not as bad as most.
2000 Beaver Patriot Thunder
Cat C-12 * Allison 4060
Aventa 2 * US Gear * Jeep GCL
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jeep2relax
Lakeside, CA
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Joined: 02/09/2005
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As for leaf springs. Make sure they are able to work as designed. As they age surfaces rust and bind together. Pivot points and sliding surfaces need to be lubricated so they can do their jobs.
Taking the weight off the springs and spraying with motor cycle chain lube can help the springs work easier.
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1fastdad
mo.
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Joined: 08/27/2007
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It is not the rate of compresion that controls the ride,porpoising or sway but the rate of rebound. Do you remember when they use too tell you to push down on your car and see how many times it bounced to tell if your shocks are bad. Thats rebound(The rate that the shock expands).
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Cloud Dancer
San Antonio and Livingston TX USA
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Joined: 06/08/2001
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FIRE UP wrote:Gents,
Well, I did and didn't want to start a presidential debate over this but, I did want clarification on some of the suspension tactics. Bret confirmed my suspicions or my thoughts of a shock adding to the "tar strip or bridge crack" theory of a harsh ride. I know and understand the bouncing or porpoising effect of either no, or bad shocks. But one of you stated the Bilsteins are a gas shock and the FSDs are not. And, the fact that the Bilsteins being gas, will have a negative effect on a smooth ride because of their design.
If that theory is correct, and the FSDs have NO "dampening on the compression stroke" but that ALL of the dampening is on the rebound stroke, then I could see where a shock change to Konis would help with a rough ride. It won't cure it but, it may ease the jarring. To the one poster that made a correlation to a leaf sprung trailer without shocks, and it's bouncing all over the planet, yes I can see that and, that would be the shocks primary objective to "dampen" the rebound to stop the bouncing but yet, let the springs suck up the bumps.
But, like I and many others have stated, you MUST MATCH THE FRONT END WEIGHT TO THE SPRING CALIBRATION. Mine is so far off that it's unbelievable. A 100 gallon water tank all the way in the back, a 75 gallon fuel tank sitting right behind the rear axle, and to top it all off, the 14 gallon propane tank is sitting behind the right set of duals. I have thought about the Kelderman system many times but, like many of you also stated, that's a ton of money. So, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place or, should I say, a shock, a stiff spring, and an unbalanced load.
About the only thing I can do is form it up, and pour concrete all around the frame and engine, and, mix in some lead while I'm at it. We like our "boon dock" camping so, we carry a full tank of water and I like being able to go from San Diego all the way to Mesquite NV on the fuel I carry. (I hate stopping in Vegas) So, some might answer me in saying "carry less water and less fuel" to help balance your load. That's not why I bought a bigger coach, so I could be limited in travels and staying times.
Gents, thank you all for your expertise and advice and info here. I most certainly appreciate it.
Smitty,
Did you sell them? If not, let's get together. And thanks for the comment on the brother FFs in Colorado. I was on both the Cedar Fire and the '07 fire and once they get to that size, there's nothing on earth that can stop them. I hear even some of those boys and girls have lost their own homes in that Colorado fire. That's bad.
Scott
Many of us have lived through the F-53 experience. You're kinda on the right track (on the front weight business). Some of us simply (temporarily, for experiment) loaded the front floor area with a bunch of sandbags (filled with sand). It'll make a believer out of you, because not only does it take the harshness of the intitial hit, BUT it also improves your directional stability by virtue of the fact that the added front weight INCREASES the 'castor authority'.
HOWEVER, the downside is that the leaf springs will be "flatter", and this puts it closer to the bump stops (not as much vertical travel).
I finally gave up on 'buggy springs', and bought into the "real" solution,.....a full-blown big airbag system with ample vertical suspension travel PLUS constant-height valves. A little-known fact on this type of suspension is that no matter how weight/cargo you load, the spring rate-to-weight ratio remains constant. Which means that if the size of the airbag was properly selected (by the design engineers) the ride quality remains good regardless of whether the MH is empty or fully loaded.
Willie & Betty Sue
Miko & Sparky
2003 41 ft Dutch Star Diesel Pusher/Spartan
Floorplan 4010
Blazer toad & Ranger bassboat
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