schott9014
Florida
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I don't want to get into the argument that this thread has become...but I'd like to respond to the original poster. I had a 2007 Tundra CrewMax with the 5.7 and a 28 foot bunkhouse (about 33 feet total.) Although the "dry" weight was about 6K lbs, by the time we had everything loaded up...we were pushing 8K lbs. The Tundra will handle it, but please, get some E rated tires on it or you will experience a whole lot of "white knuckle moments." Also, we started with a Reese Dual Cam WD hitch and it never seemed quite right. I adjusted it for hours, took it for test rides and eventually took it to a very reputable dealer to have set up. I say that only to quiet the naysayers...but I spent a LOT of time and money and it was set up as well as it could be. It still had a tendency to get squirrely out on the interstate. Every time something larger than a motorcycle passed me, the push-pull wiggle was very pronounced and well...scary. I think it has to do with the length and height of our trailer. It's a big Keystone and its basically a billboard. Eventually, I heard about the HA and contacted them. They had a refurbished unit with a warranty. I bought it (90 day trial) and it was night and day. Most importantly, I feel quite a bit safer. We have had to take emergency actions because there are idiots out on the road. Running our entire unit- truck and camper into the median at 55 miles an hour to avoid an accident- with the Hensley and we were rock solid. I have since traded the Tundra for a F350. I realize the HA is now overkill, and I may someday sell it and get my money back out of it, but for now, pulling the trailer is as easy as breathing. You will get a LOT of opinions from people who have never used a Hensley (or ProPride) and you should ignore them. I have yet to read of someone who says they HAVE used one and it didn't do EVERYTHING it says it will do.
Just my 2 cents...
Dave
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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Joined: 12/27/2003
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willald wrote:Not really. The dual cam uses gravity as well as friction to limit sway.
I don't think its fair to call the dual cam friction based, 'cause it really is not. Its true that friction plays a part in how it works, but gravity plays a larger part.
Will, this is interesting and (I think) new information. Can you please tell us how gravity plays a larger part in the function of the Dual Cam?
Quote:No, not an actual 'survey', but its been discussed at very great length on here a couple times (you should know, you locked the thread the last time it was discussed, haha). In both cases, I think it was shown pretty clearly which of the 2 hitches was the overall better choice.
I don't think there was any clear overall advantage shown for one versus the other. The PP manufacturer is on record as saying you would not see any difference, performance wise. Just because you think one is better than the other does not make a consensus -- only an opinion.
But -- we've been through HA versus PP before. What I'm really interested in is your explanation of how the Dual Cam depends more on gravity than friction for its operation.
Ron
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bmuller
Airdrie Alberta
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Joined: 06/02/2005
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jmtandem wrote:schott,
Airstream forums have an incredible amount of information on these hitches, both the happy customers and those that went back to using something else. While I agree with you that most Hensley owners are happy, nothing is perfect. If a Hensley (or ProPride) is only making a poorly mated tow vehicle and trailer combination work better are you really solving the root problem? That tells me which action you took to really fix the tow vehicle/trailer issue.
Could not hav said it better myself... LOL Amen!!
TV - 2008 F150 S/C w/Superchip Cortex & K&N CAI
TT - 2010 KZ Spree 324BHS LX
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jmtandem
western nevada
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Wes,
Short of driving behind a 747 ready for takeoff and getting the jet blast or a tornado out on the open highway, sway should be easily mitigated by tow vehicle mating to trailer and trailer loading (and good driving skills). The sway feature of any hitch is peace of mind. I remember when hitch manufacturer's suggested DISABLING sway if traveling on a rain or snow slick road. Why? Because it could aggravate an already bad situation and make it worse. And the hitch's sway feature is peace of mind? Disabled when you probably need it the most!
As to your example, the trailer pushes the tow vehicle going down hill and if there is a curve at the bottom it is even worse as the trailer trys to push the rear of the tow vehicle around. The undersized tow vehicle is trying to turn, the trailer is trying to push it straight. In a few seconds the trailer is jack kniefed, the tow vehicle lost the battle of control and it might be off the road or on its side. This is not my understanding of 'sway'; rather it is the tail wagging the dog. Too light, small or too short of a wheelbase of the tow vehicle, too much hill, poorly adjusted trailer brakes, all can combine to have the trailer push the tow vehicle off the road. Add rain, snow or excessive speed to the road and an accident can happen.
'Sway' is when the tongue weight is too small of a percentage of trailer weight. This can occur with too much weight behind the axles. The trailer begins to sway back and forth behind the tow vehicle. Each iteration becomming more violent than the prior one. Trailer braking combined with major power from the tow vehicle will bring this under control. If left unchecked the sway becomes so violent it takes out the tow vehicle as it can no longer maintain contol. If passing an 18 wheeler creates a situation where excessive sway is occuring with a trailer, then there is something wrong with the loading or the tow vehicle's capabilities. A bow wave from a truck or bus will cause some movement of the tow vehicle and trailer but shoud not contribute to the trailer becomming violently out of control and all over the road.
Providng an example of an accident is again employing the fear factor. Why not provide examples of the thousands who have towed TT's, boats, utility trailers, horses, and the like without sway features and made it just fine? One accident example, thousands of successfully complete trips by others. Weigh the risk factor!
Incidentally, manufacturers of fifth wheel toy haulers learned that axle placement is critical as the rear is loaded with heavy motorcycles, and atv's and if pin weights are too low the handling is poor even with a fifth wheel hitch. So, poor handling from poor loading is not totally limited to TT's. How do you fix this problem on a fifth wheel? By purchasing a more expensive hitch or by simple load placement in the trailer?
'05 Dodge Cummins 4x4 dually 3500 white quadcab auto long bed airbags overload springs bumpers
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jmtandem
western nevada
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schott,
Airstream forums have an incredible amount of information on these hitches, both the happy customers and those that went back to using something else. While I agree with you that most Hensley owners are happy, nothing is perfect. If a Hensley (or ProPride) is only making a poorly mated tow vehicle and trailer combination work better are you really solving the root problem? You bought a Hensley then you bought a one ton truck. Now you will sell the Hensley. That tells me which action you took to really fix the tow vehicle/trailer issue.
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schott9014
Florida
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jmtandem-
Wow...I think your crystal ball is broken. You assume a couple of things... I never said why I went to a different truck...it had nothing to do with how the Tundra and Hensley performed. Likewise, if you actually took the time to read the WORDS that I wrote, I never claimed that there weren't people who didn't keep a HA. I said I haven't come across a statement that someone said it didn't PERFORM as advertised.
Have you ever used a HA or ProPride? If not, then I really don't see how you can make a judgement call other than to say it is too expensive for you.
I was just trying to give the requester an answser with some real world experience. But I just like to camp. I want to get there safely, relaxed and ready to enjoy my time. I also like to not dread hooking up to come home. But that's just me.
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jmtandem
western nevada
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schott,
I reread your comments and stand by what I said. If you want to find some folks that used Hensley's and went back to something else, that can be found on the Airstream forums. There is considerably more info on hitches and especially the Hensely/ProPride there than here. I spend time there, perhaps you do not. Apparently for you the hitch did everything you wanted but you now say it is 'overkill' and that is after you purchased the one ton. Coincidence?
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APT
SE Michigan
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Joined: 06/09/2010
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willald wrote:
Not really. The dual cam uses gravity as well as friction to limit sway.
The Reese dual cam sway control system is a spring with a cam to vary the amount of force. While there is some friction between the cam and the bars, it is insignificant to the force of the spring.
A & A parents of DD 2005, DS1 2007, DS2 2009
2011 Suburban 2500 6.0L 3.73 pulling 2011 Heartland North Trail 28BRS
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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APT wrote:The Reese dual cam sway control system is a spring with a cam to vary the amount of force. While there is some friction between the cam and the bars, it is insignificant to the force of the spring.
The sway-resisting force due to friction between cam and bar is significantly greater than the sway-resisting force due to the cam-detent action.
Ron
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schott9014
Florida
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jmtandem-
I don't troll other forums. I was merely trying to offer some helpful advice to the poster questions. I based my opinion on my real world experiences. Due to the nature of Florida's hurricane season, I HAVE driven thru hurricane force winds. It wasn't by choice, as ALL of the state parks in the panhandle were closed and we needed to get to shelter. The Tundra/Hensley kept us within comfortable levels. Was it fun? No way...and I don't ever want to have to do it again, but I have a strong bias as to what the Hensley did for my family. Your opinion is apparently different, but you and I have different experiences.
Once again- I was trying to answer the original posters questions based on my personal experience with a comparable setup.
You have an incredibly competent tow vehicle (according to your sig line.) If I could have found an 05-06 Cummins in my price range when I was purchasing, that is what I would have bought. Instead, I found a 7.3 within my budget. But, I have to ask...why did you put airbags and overloads on it? Was it because you are outside of the limits of the capacity of your truck, or is it because of a better towing experience? Safety, comfort, peace of mind? Everyone has their own opinions and gets to pay for their choices. I was just offering mine to the original poster, as I have had very similar circumstances.
Oh...and have you ever pulled with a HA/ProPride? I think if you tried it, you may be suprised at what it does. You may still think that it is grossly overpriced, but you can't knock that it does what it says it can do. I didn't say that I WAS going to sell my HA, I just said that I could get most of my money out of it, if I ever did. Frankly, the truck/trailer combination that I have now is just too darn comfortable to mess with. It's easy, fun and safe. Why go to all the trouble to take it off, get another hitch and test it and then choose which one to keep. Personally, I have other things I'd rather do...I still need to build a container for that dang cleanout hose. Maybe I'll start another thread and you can give me some good advice. Ok?
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