Quote: The tech that I spoke too had my answer in 2 seconds after I described my problem and gave my model #.
Best part......he offered to send me a complete "starting device kit" free of charge!
So there you have it.
It appears his temp setup is not the issue - as his unit did not come with a starting device installed in the unit - like most every other unit has..
* This post was
edited 07/27/10 04:56pm by an administrator/moderator *
BurbMan wrote: I have about a 60' run from my main panel to the TT outlet and 10/3 works just fine. Heck, before I ran the 30A service, I used to plug the TT into a 15A garage outlet with a 50' 12/3 extension cord and run the a/c with no issues. I've also ran a 25' 10/3 TT extension cord at some CGs and never had a problem.
Do yourself a favor and check all of the lugs and connections in the main TT panel. You may have a loose connection either at the main or the branch that feeds the a/c. The fact that it ran great at the last CG means nothing, the problem could have developed on the way home.
Even with the jury rig you have to the hot tub you shouldn't be seeing that much voltage drop, if you've got #8 running back to the panel.
The problem is no hard start kit in the A/C unit. As soon as I install it we'll know 100%...but the RVC tech rep (manufacturer of the Coleman AC unit) certainly agreed that was the only problem.
I'm actually a combustion turbine technician by day...I'm not a total stranger to wiring..just don't do many residential or code applications. I have to admit, the temp set up did look pretty sweet when it was all done.....too bad I took it all apart and will need to re-do it all!
Dan
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Not bashing anybody, just simply suggesting that he check the connections in his TT main panel, several folks have reported over the years finding loose connections from the factory. As you know, a loose connection will cause voltage drop and excessive current draw. My point was that I don't have a hard start unit on my a/c, and I don't have the same wire gauge capacity as the OP has, and yet I don't have the same problems. Just the opposite, I'm saying there's no issue with the OP's temp set up.
* This post was
edited 07/27/10 04:57pm by an administrator/moderator *
I don't know for sure how the op is set up at the hottub but here is my set up. From my main panel pool people put in a box about 150 ft from main 200 amp to run the pool pump and also a pool heat pump. I got rid of heat pump after first year due to cost to run.
I swapped out the 50 amp breaker to a 30 amp breaker. Bought 10/3 wire from HD and ran that about 100 ft to 30 amp rv outlet box. When I hook up the TT I extend the main cable and add another 25ft cable I got from walmart to make it to the outlet. I have a 15k btu ac and runs just fine with fridge as well.
If you are sharing the load with hottub maybe that is your problem
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The hard start kit is a fix for a hard starting compressor. it does nothing to make up for low viltage while the AC is running, and I don't know why a tech would say that. If the AC has bee starting OK up to know, it's unlikely that it would develop that issue a this point, but then most of the fixes for AC problems posted here are to add freon or replace a capacitor, so all bets are off. At any rate, the line voltage needs to be checked with a load running on it and if the voltage is more than 1-2volts lower than without a load, the guy needs to start looking for a wiring or connection issue. Run for an extended period on less than 108 volts, that compressor is likely to burn up, hard start kit or not..
I have to agree with Doug. I think he just overloaded the 30A circuit and the hard start kit isn't going to compensate for that.
My Coleman Mach 15,000 btu A/C unit:
Model 8335-D 8564 guess what the "5" stands for?
No OPTIONAL starting components (AKA Starting capacitor)
The tech that I spoke too had my answer in 2 seconds after I described my problem and gave my model #.
Best part......he offered to send me a complete "starting device kit" free of charge!
Please, reference the wiring diagram..........OPTIONAL START KIT CONSISTS OF STARTING AND RUNNING CAPACITORS! See the dotted line on the drawing.
The hot tub is drained and off, I do know how to run, land, and check wiring connections. The AC unit was not optioned as I would've expected, even though it was an "upgrade" from the 12500btu unit.
Why is this hard to believe? I didn't overload anything, in fact my neighbor (who is an electrical contractor who put in my "to code" hot tub panel) says I over-did my install and was also pointing his finger at the TT A/C unit.
Prov, I'm not sure how that's going to work. I know a little about electricity, not a lot, so help me understand. I know a capacitor stores energy so it can be released all at once during a peak demand. The kids with the boombox car stereos use capacitors with the big subwoofers to provide that extra shot of energy to drive the speaker for those extra loud extra low notes that rattle your windows. On a motor start, capacitors are used to provide that surge of power needed to get the motor turning against the resistance of teh compressor. The store-and-release of the capacitor works well for these intermittent power needs.
How does a "run capacitor" work"? How can it be storing and releasing energy at the same time? You're saying that a run capacitor can take 108v line voltage and make it 120v to compensate for a voltage drop. So the capacitor is in essence making its own energy. How?
If you measured 108v in the TT with the a/c running, no capacitor kit is going to fix that. Let's say it did though....that would mean with the a/c on the capacitor would boost the a/c voltage to 120 but the rest of the TT would only have 108? Sonmething doesn't make sense here. I think you got bad info from the a/c guy and something else is wrong.
I think your hot-tub hookup was fine, I'm betting you have a loose connection in the main panel of your TT, or a loose connection on the roof where the power connects to the a/c unit. Or possible a loose connection from the TT plug to the 30A recepticle. Does the plug get warm?
BurbMan wrote: Prov, I'm not sure how that's going to work. I know a little about electricity, not a lot, so help me understand. I know a capacitor stores energy so it can be released all at once during a peak demand. The kids with the boombox car stereos use capacitors with the big subwoofers to provide that extra shot of energy to drive the speaker for those extra loud extra low notes that rattle your windows. On a motor start, capacitors are used to provide that surge of power needed to get the motor turning against the resistance of teh compressor. The store-and-release of the capacitor works well for these intermittent power needs.
How does a "run capacitor" work"? How can it be storing and releasing energy at the same time? You're saying that a run capacitor can take 108v line voltage and make it 120v to compensate for a voltage drop. So the capacitor is in essence making its own energy. How?
If you measured 108v in the TT with the a/c running, no capacitor kit is going to fix that. Let's say it did though....that would mean with the a/c on the capacitor would boost the a/c voltage to 120 but the rest of the TT would only have 108? Sonmething doesn't make sense here. I think you got bad info from the a/c guy and something else is wrong.
I think your hot-tub hookup was fine, I'm betting you have a loose connection in the main panel of your TT, or a loose connection on the roof where the power connects to the a/c unit. Or possible a loose connection from the TT plug to the 30A recepticle. Does the plug get warm?
First of all, I measured 105-107 only when the AC compressor tried to load. (this is where the start cap will fix things) When the start cap comes in, the rest of the TT voltage will be the same as the AC compressor boosted voltage, not lower.
You've got it right about the start capacitor...it provides a significant voltage boost to the motor to get it to 3/4 speed, then it drops out of the circuit. It does this by creating a current to voltage lag in the seperate start windings of the motor. Since this current builds up slower, the armature has time to react to the rotating field as it builds up, and to begin rotating with the field. The running capacitor is different, it stays energized the entire time, charging and discharging (remember ac electrical theory...back and forth at 60 cycles per second) keeping the motor windings acting like a 2 phase motor..increasing efficiency. The running cap is usually just a smaller size (microfarrad) than the starting cap. That's the best I can describe it.
To answer your other question, no I don't have any 'hot' wire issues..nor hot plug connections. I haven't I found a loose connection..although I will be on top of the TT pulling the AC cover off soon, and will double check up there as well.
This TT is a new 2010 unit, although certainly not immune to issues.
OK, I think I understand about the run capacitor. It's charging in phase and discharging out of phase, almost mimmicking a 220v setup? Interesting....
All I'm saying is that you wouldn't be the first guy to find loose connections in your main power panel on your brand new TT. It may or may not be an issue, but for 10 mins of work, pull the cover and retorque the lugs, then you can check the box and rule that out as a cause.
Post back after you install the a/c kit and let us know if that fixed the problem.
I received the 'starting device' kit today, which consisted of a starting capacitor, a few wires, and a resistor / relay.
Installation was very straight forward. Took the lid off the AC, opened the wiring access cover and plugged in the cap.
It wires up with the running capacitor...a simple plug and play install.
Since I took down all my temp wire, I needed to re-do it all...and after it was all said and done.....finally tested it.
It took the A/C compressor a few starts cycles before the cap had enough juice to get it going. After it ran well for a a few minutes, I shut it down and cycled it a few times without issue.
So indeed, the starting capacitor did the trick.
And just because...I did check all connections behind the converter panel, and the a/c unit....no issues noted.
My a/c did have a running cap, and a fan cap....just no starting cap!
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