James85C
Beecher, IL
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Man, you are giving me all new confidence to get this rig back on the road. I have to admit, when I went to bed at 1am last night, with the RV not running any better than when I started, I was pretty deflated. Didn't help that I managed to put a small pin-hole in my gas tank, trying the old "bang on the tank" trick to get the pump to run. Yeah, JB weld to the rescue tonight. That tank needs some kinda shield, it's a little rusty on the surface, I don't want a rock or something causing an issue down the road.
So the newer generation of E-series is no improvement, eh? Honestly, I was frikkin' impressed with how this old girl did on the highway. We were loaded down pretty good, but she was smooth and straight. The engine could use a bit more power, but ran just fine. I was pretty impressed with ~7.5 mpg (best tank of the trip), I was expecting 5 or less.
Oh, something else I discovered last night that I wasn't a big fan of. So I'm inside the cab, with the engine cover off, looking around on the engine. Bored, I turn the key backward to put the radio on. Every time I do this, a loud click/thunk sound (sounds like a heavy relay) comes from under the hood on the driver's side. This also happens when you turn the key forward. Anyways, radio is playing for 10-15 minutes or so, and I accidentally notice these little valve things that are attached in-line with a vent of some sort on the top of each carb bowl are HOT. I follow these vent lines, and they head to an area where an air pump used to be under the hood (now just bare lines with bolts in them). What are these little valves, and should I just disconnect them (electrically) since my air pump system isn't even intact?
James - Chicago, IL
1986 27' Rockwood class-C
Ford E350 chassis - 460 ci
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Jamesq
Alton Mo.
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Joined: 12/17/2004
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my friend has a rockwell same problen the fix is under the hood in a box on the drivers side un screw the cove a push the reseat button.hope this helps. James
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Jamesq
Alton Mo.
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also that model has the fuel punp on the frame.and not in the tank.
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James85C
Beecher, IL
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Well, mine's a Rockwood, but I imagine it's all the same. I found a reset button inside the cab, near the passenger footwell. That didn't seem to help at all. Perhaps I'm not hitting the right reset button! I will look again.
Dang I need a repair manual! I've had no luck online, guess I might just suck it up and buy one, or maybe go copy some pages at the library.
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James85C
Beecher, IL
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I was under there last night, I'm pretty sure the only thing in the frame rail is the switching box to select from tank 1 or tank 2. It merely swaps the connections, no pumping.
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j-d
Sunny Florida USA
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The first of the EFI units might have had a frame mounted high pressure pump, and none in the tank, but this series has a pump (per tank if two tanks) and no mechanical pump on the engine either. This isn't to say somebody might not have installed one. As I mentioned before, the Ford low pressure pumps used with the carbureted engines will allow fuel to be drawn through them if they're not running. This is how I got fuel for our genset when I installed it.
Problem is, the people who understand the old units are getting away from them, retiring, or simply forgetting. Gee, what were we talking about...
God Bless, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100
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Grillmeister
Iconoclast
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j-d and I have posted on this subject before and I agree with everything he has said, he knows this stuff better than I do.
I have a 1984 that had fuel delivery issues on a vacation a thousand miles from home and I developed a work around that got me home.
I have an electric external fuel pump (Holly Blue with pressure regulator) mounted on the frame above the rear-end next to the fuel tank. Very long story about faulty old wiring having too much resistance involving the low pressure oil switch, inertia switch, ignition switch and relay. To solve this problem on the side of the road I just ran a fused jumper wire from the engine battery directly back to the fuel pump and it got me home.
I had the same hard start with lots of cranking until I added a bypass and now it starts instantly every time, too bad it took me a year to figure this out.
I thought this may help you with a diagnosis if you decide to add an external pump for experimentation.
Good luck and let us know how it works out.
Show me the GRILL and STAND BACK!!!! 
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James85C
Beecher, IL
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Thanks again for the info, old Ford fuel masters. I meant the rig is old, not you guys. Or maybe you are. I feel old at 32 some days...
I got out there for a bit tonight, learned a few things. For starters, I located the blue fuel pump wire on the starter solenoid, on the passenger side fender. There's a similar solenoid/diode on the driver's side fender, but that battery is for the coach only, nothing to do with the engine or drive systems.
Here's the wire I jumped:
http://gallery.jamieanton.com/misc/cars/RV/RV_battery.jpg.php
Making the connection caused a small draw of power, but nothing concerning. Seemed to be making a proper connection. So from there, I headed under the rig to listen to the fuel tank. I had the switch in the truck switched to "front", my tank that had always worked before. Absolutely zero sound from the tank. Turned the key forward (knowing it did nothing for the pump, but whatever), still zero sound. So for fun, I flipped the dash switch over to the rear tank, which has never been able to fuel the engine. Crawled under, ear to the tank... I've got pumping! Well, sounded more like strange bubbling or something (mind you, the only fuel pump I've ever listened to is for EFI), but either way, something is happening back there. However... it does nothing to get fuel to the engine, as has always been the case.
SO... I have confirmation that jumping the blue wire WILL get power to the rear fuel pump. While I have zero sound/pumping at the front tank, I haven't confirmed whether or not power is getting there (I imagine it is, all wiring looks good).
My guess at this time: The front pump went bad, and the rear tank is unable to fuel the engine for some reason, despite the pump running. I think my next step is to possibly pull a fuel line off the rear tank, see if it is actually pumping any fuel or not. If so, I might bypass the switch unit, see if the rear tank can supply the engine directly.
If not, and my strange/bubbling pump is unable to pump fuel to the engine... I think it's time for an external pump. What is the minimum PSI / flow rate needed? I saw some pretty inexpensive pumps online that claimed to move about 15 gal/hr, I imagine that could do the trick? Others I saw claimed 30 gallons per hour. I actually do have a small inline electric pump on my generator (no clue on the specs), I might try plumbing that in and see if it gets me going. I'm pushing my luck with the RV in the driveway, it's a 3-day limit in my town, I'm going on 6!
Thanks again for all the advice guys. Hopefully I'll get her back on the road this weekend.
Jamie
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j-d
Sunny Florida USA
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15 GPH is minimum in my opinion. I'd heard a 454 Chevy in a Class A can use 25GPH climbing a steep grade at high RPM. Don't know if that's been confirmed, but 15 seems to be at the bottom of the range. Here's Facet-Purolator
http://www.facet-purolator.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=7&id=16&Itemid=31
And there are other types on their site. The one on the genset should be a very low pressure unit with a check valve feature. I used a small Facet with 3PSI and no check valve, never had a problem, but original ONAN has a shutoff valve. I'd say 30 GPH and 5-7 PSI.
There seems to be one more small wire on your solenoid than we had, but it seems like you have two blue wires and selected the right one. I first just pulled the blue wire and held it to the end of the positive battery terminal bolt. I could usually hear a pumo whirr, but not a bubbling sound. Is your rear tank empty?
The link I sent was for illustration and is a full Pump Assembly. If you go in to replace a pump, all you need is a Pump Kit. Essentially the little pump at the bottom of the assembly and a new strainer. I have a source for those if you want to order one. Problem with our Holiday was that if the front tank had to come down, I would have had to pull the genset then cut access holes to get at the bolts. Coach came to me with a new-looking front pump. I would have much rather replaced the rear pump event though the tank was bigger.
I don't think the blue wire doesn't need the fuel pump fuse to power the pump. May be fused somewhere but I didn't find it. To me, that means you might find a fuse or wire problem in the running side of the pump wiring.
I just bought a pump kit for our 2003 coach and it came with an adapter wiring harness. Harness had Red and Black wires, so I think that in the link above, that Black is Pump Ground, Red is Pump Run, and Yellow is Fuel Gauge Sender. That's inside the tank. I don't know what the external connection colors are.
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mobilefleet
on the road
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460 has a fuel pump relay, a small square one, mounted near the battery...pull the harness off it and swap it with the a/c relay which is right next to it, they are the same. If it starts there's your problem. Very popular for getting moisture up in them and causing no starts
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