mosseater
Dillsburg, PA
Senior Member
Joined: 10/19/2007
View Profile
 Online
|
I am noticing abnormal (?) wear on the driver's side upper trunnion socket on my hitch head. This is the same head I've been running for three years, and the same side I popped a bar out of while backing around one night in a campground. It only removed a tiny piece of the socket edge, and I had tapped the metal back into position and have run it ever since. At the time I had little choice other than to replace it on the road, so I assessed it, and moved on. It has held up well, but I fear the end is near. I've been keeping tabs on it and it appears to be worsening.
I've noted that this part (#112750) may no longer be available, which is fine with me, as I always thought it was underengineered. The apparent replacement (#58617) appears to be beefier and better designed. I have an email in to Reese to get their input and have not recieved a response as yet. I may call tomorrow if I don't hear back.
From what I've read about this situation, I'm still a little unclear whether this swap will work without buying new trunnion heads and changing my set-up. I know I will check my set-up even if it is a clean swap, just from a wear standpoint alone. Is the new part an exact replacement as far as geometry? Thanks for any help.
* This post was
edited 07/21/10 03:07pm by mosseater *
"It`s not important that you know all the answers, it`s only important to know where to get all the answers" Arone Kleamyck
"...An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
Sunset Creek 298 BH
|
JBarca
Dublin, Ohio, USA
Senior Member
Joined: 12/16/2004
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
 Offline
|
Hi Moss
I can't seem to link your pics back here but I can tell the socket is swedging outside the head and that comes from a bind in a turn.
I know I cracked mine out turning in the yard.... and the other side was swedged like yours. Since the metal has weakened even pushing it back in it may not be strong enough to take the load any more.
Now to the head. What hitch is your head used on?
Is it a HP trunnion bar hitch used with a DC or a Reese SC hitch with the friction pads of just an older standard trunnion bar head?
The newer 58617 uses 1 1/8" trunnion sockets and the new one you will get is now all cast steel. It use to be 3 piece welded. The 1 1/8 is nominal. They use to have a 7/8 trunnion.
Before I post a bunch of pics to heop show the difference that may be the wrong head of yours, tell us what hitch this is off of or even better a pic of it. I have both Reese 58617, 3 piece and all cast at home and have a bunch of diminsions on them I can share.
Good luck.
John
John & Cindy
2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package
21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR
Ford Tow Command
1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam
2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver
2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR
(I wish we were camping!)
|
rvluversnc93
Thomasville NC
Senior Member
Joined: 05/20/2004
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
I think it's time for a new hitch head and trunion ends that match the new head. That is a scary pic I would be affraid to use it. IMHO
Happy Camping !!
Derek - FD Battalion Chief
Teresa - Technology Assistant
Hers - 11 Dodge Charger
His - 04.5 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD Q-Cab
(Real Trucks Don't Have SparkPlugs)
2011 Canyon Trail Fiver
|
mosseater
Dillsburg, PA
Senior Member
Joined: 10/19/2007
View Profile
Online
|
JBarca wrote:Hi Moss
I can't seem to link your pics back here but I can tell the socket is swedging outside the head and that comes from a bind in a turn.
I know I cracked mine out turning in the yard.... and the other side was swedged like yours. Since the metal has weakened even pushing it back in it may not be strong enough to take the load any more.
Now to the head. What hitch is your head used on?
Is it a HP trunnion bar hitch used with a DC or a Reese SC hitch with the friction pads of just an older standard trunnion bar head?
The newer 58617 uses 1 1/8" trunnion sockets and the new one you will get is now all cast steel. It use to be 3 piece welded. The 1 1/8 is nominal. They use to have a 7/8 trunnion.
Before I post a bunch of pics to heop show the difference that may be the wrong head of yours, tell us what hitch this is off of or even better a pic of it. I have both Reese 58617, 3 piece and all cast at home and have a bunch of diminsions on them I can share.
Good luck.
John
Here is a complete shot of the whole hitch.
And, here is a partial close up of the head and trunnions. I can't remember exactly which model name it is, but it is a dual cam and the head is one piece cast, not welded together, so I'm guessing it's the older style. It was new installed with the trailer three years ago. I have corrected the problem which caused the bar to be skipped across the pavement, and I keep index marks on the front of the trailer to prevent turning too sharply. The number I times I exceeded those marks since that fateful day I can count on one hand. It will turn farther now that I have removed the offending ball threads, but I don't go there because it almost binds in the cam because of head tilt. I think the socket metal was fatigued enough from that one event that it is finally giving up the ghost and slowly moving outward. The trunnion heads show very little wear on the pins. They still even have some paint left on the where they make contact, so I think I'm OK on that point.
|
DanMartin
Hillsboro, Or
Full Member
Joined: 03/20/2004
View Profile
|
Wow. I have many thousands of miles on mine with nothing like that kind of wear! Very scary. I also have the older cast hitch head and have had zero issues with it in 7+ years of use.
Are you greasing the trunnions? I use the Reese "On the ball" lube for the hitch ball and trunnions. It's basically cornhead grease.
Dan Martin
|
|
|
mosseater
Dillsburg, PA
Senior Member
Joined: 10/19/2007
View Profile
Online
|
I'll wager there are very few that take as good of care of their hitch equiptment as I do. I wipe off, inspect, and grease at every hitch up, 8 miles or 8000 miles. I have weighed and adjusted my set up several times and know where my numbers are. I check tongue weight, lights, and tire pressures every time also. Not too much gets by me. This bulge has been growing and the last trip was the icing on the cake. It had changed noticably from when I left to when I got back, and no major events took place. I did have to turn sharper than normal to get out of the dump station, so that might have been enough.
|
eric james
Sioux Falls, SD
Senior Member
Joined: 07/21/2004
View Profile
Offline
|
You'll more than likely have peace of mind by getting a new head.
I looked at your photos and since you've mentioned losing a bar in a turn I counted your links under tension. 5.
I had the same problem at 5.
I'd replace the head, then use more tilt and 6-8 links under tension to eliminate that bar binding into the Dual Cam.
Those heads are spendy at $199 I know. I found my replacement on craigslist for a lot less. Lucked out. I replace my 800 bars with 1200 bars thus needing the 1 1/8" socket head.
2009 Keystone Passport UL 290BH
2003 Ford Expedition EB 5.4L/3.73
|
mosseater
Dillsburg, PA
Senior Member
Joined: 10/19/2007
View Profile
Online
|
The problem I'm having now is, I've finally verified with Reese (after searching for their tech support number for a while) that the part number isn't #112750 as cast into my current mount. The number is #58167. And that same part number on numerous sites has a wide disparity in price from $126 to $349! Also, some vendors claim it's for only 400/4000 lb max(tongue weight/trailer weight), while others claim it can handle up to 1700 lb bars. The same part number! I called the cheapest one and tried to verify their price, part number and rating. The guy checked their inventory and said if it's a Reese #58167, then that's what it is, and that's what I'll get. He had no other info. So, I think I'll order it and hope it's right. I don't like the idea of sending it back, but I hate the idea of paying double for it even more.
I also pointed out to the Reese tech support guy that their phone number isn't on their Reese website, you have to go to Cequent Inc. to get it. He agreed and stated they do that on purpose to cut back on volume of calls. They only want the people who have real problems, I guess. Anyhow, he was nice, and knows the products and understood everything I told him. Hope to have the part soon and git-er done.
* This post was
edited 07/14/10 12:59am by mosseater *
|
mosseater
Dillsburg, PA
Senior Member
Joined: 10/19/2007
View Profile
Online
|
eric james wrote:You'll more than likely have peace of mind by getting a new head.
I looked at your photos and since you've mentioned losing a bar in a turn I counted your links under tension. 5.
I had the same problem at 5.
I'd replace the head, then use more tilt and 6-8 links under tension to eliminate that bar binding into the Dual Cam.
Those heads are spendy at $199 I know. I found my replacement on craigslist for a lot less. Lucked out. I replace my 800 bars with 1200 bars thus needing the 1 1/8" socket head.
Maybe I'm not understanding something. Doesn't more head tilt create more springbar roll, therefore, more bind in a sharp turn? Currently, I'm running 4 links (yes, I said "four") just so I don't have to tilt it further. I've aleady discovered that a link takes up more spring tension than a notch on the washer. Not by much, maybe a 1/16"-1/8". I have checked my setup in the middle of a turn and there's only a silly millimeter of clearance left between the cam detent on the spring bar, and the the cam shoulder and link, but there IS clearance and it doesn't bind. I have rub marks, but not bind (yet). I've studied this quite a bit and I'm sure I'm correct in my understanding. In fact, the picture in my link shows how I studied it, i.e., disconnected from the truck and swinging it through it's range of motion. As the pivot centerline of the trunnion pins gets tilted further back, this changes the force angle of the trunnion/mount relationship as the hitch turns through it's range of motion. It starts out in-line (parallel) with the A-frame of the trailer with the force deeply seated in the rear of the pin socket. Then, at full turn, the bar is pushing sideways on the ball mount and the bar is rolled laterally in relation to the A-frame. Still almost parallel, but rolled laterally (sideways) in the cam seat. More tilt=more roll. Am I right?
Here's the one I found.
#58167 ball mount
* This post was
edited 07/13/10 04:40pm by mosseater *
|
JBarca
Dublin, Ohio, USA
Senior Member
Joined: 12/16/2004
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
Hi Moss
I set out tonight to help you with some pics of the prior generation 58167 3 piece head verses the new all cast 58167 bought this spring. Then I see it seems you might already have 58167 or maybe not.... In 2007 Reese made a trunnion bar head to fit the Reese SC hitch. They only made it for a year and then stopped as they had issues trying to adjust and get the rigth WD on the SC hitch I believe. So they then put Reese 58167 in it’s place even on the SC hitch. That 2007 head had cast numbers in it like PN 112/50 (or maybe 112750) cast into the mount under the ball. Do not know if you have one of those 2007 heads as they may have been mixed up at the dealer.
See here. And there is a lot of other good stuff in that post about the SC hitch and the lock up angle of the WD bars of the 2007 head and the 58617 head.
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseac........d/23533284/gotomsg/23760172.cfm#23760172
Now you originally where asking if your head and the 58167 where a direct interchange. Well this much I learned tonight. My old 3 piece 58167 and the new 58167 are different. Yes they can work in place of each other but it will force WD settings to be retweaked.
1st the lock up angle it different. The new 58167 all cast has about 4 degrees more tilt angle to the ball with the WD bar in over the older 3 piece 58167.
The ball riser pad is higher on the all cast 58167 then the old 3 piece 58167
And the distance between the sockets on the top of the head are different between the 2.
The real question is what exact head do you have? At this point you can compare it to the new 58167 when you get it. You may have to tweak the WD for the head differences.
My new all cast 58167 has a REV A cast in the front. Which means there may be other versions out there too with some updates. Does your have a REV A in the front of it? See pics below.
Since I took these pics, here they are. Maybe they can help you sort out what it is you have.
Old 3 piece 58167 next to new (2009 vintage) all cast REV A 58167
The lock up angle is different. About 4 degrees more on the Rev A new 58167. This means the new All cast head will require less tilt to get the same WD settings as my old 3 piece head
The ball mount riser is higher in relation to the top of the truninon bars on the new REV A 58167
The trunnion sockets in the upper part of the head are spaced different between the 2. I measured with a caliper.
The REV A cast into the front of the head
The rest of the REV A sticker
The weight rating sticker
I’m out of time tonight but I do want to get back to your hitch setup. If you are running 4 links under tension that can cause binding given the right situation in compound angle turns.
Oh and it takes about 2 head teeth tilt of the head to about equal 1 chain link of tension. That way you can get WD force inbetween a chain link.
And the Reese (Cequent) 1-800 tech hotline is printed on the Hitch instructions. Just look up any Reese instructions.
Can you tell me the distance from the bottom of your A Frame rail to the ground with the TT level? That will tell me a lot about your setup. That and the ball height, inside coupler to ground with TT level. It looks like you have a 6” wide A frame, is it?
Be back on Wednesday
Hope this helps
John
|
|
|
|
