1fastdad
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96Bounder30E wrote:1fastdad wrote:Make sure you get stainless steel or ceramic coated headers or you will be replacing them more than you want. Get headers with at least a 3/8" flange. Regular steel headers rust to fast.
What kind of time frame are you talking about? I have seen standard steel headers crack as soon as 90 days and rust threw in less than 2 years. It all depends on the climate ,instalation and how much it sets. Make sure there is no stress on the headers when you attach the pipe and that the pipes are suported properly with rubber mount. The engine moves and the frame doesn't.
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frankdamp
Anacortes, or wherever we've gone.
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One caution. I was going to have headers installed on my old '85 Class C. The shop ordered them, I think from Thorley, according to the p/ns specified for that year E350 chassis.
When they were delivered, the shop discovered they wouldn't fit. The distance from the ports to the bottom pipe was too short, and the pipe hit the cross-member under the back of the engine. To get them on would've require boring a 3" hole through the cross-member!
Initial reaction was "they sent the wrong ones, no big deal". When the manufacturer was contacted, their response was "They're to correct p/n, re-stocking is 25% and if you re-order, we'll send the same ones out again."
The shop ate the cost, put them into stock and I think eventually sold them to someone with an F350 truck. I had the Ford manifolds resurfaced and re-installed. The shop manager was a former Ford dealership machanic and he knew the fatory recommended procedure - no gasket, no joint compound, Grade 8 bolts (he used CRES bolts) and very careful torquing to the Ford spec.
We did another 4000 miles or so without any problems, before we sold the rig for other reasons. The previous owner had spent $2300 having the same job done only 3500 miles earlier, but we found traces of gasket material and joint compound.
The only other option I've heard of that's supposed to make the stock manifolds acceptable is a fiarly thick, solid annealed copper gasket and a spcial type of locking bolt. These were a package deal from JC Whitney a few years ago. A couple of electric fans blowing air over the manifolds woould help, too.
Frank Damp, DW - Eileen
Anacortes, WA
'02 Georgetown 325, F53, V-10
Dog - 1 Male Yellow Lab (Bailey 9 next July).
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Sully2
Cincinnati
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webmaxm wrote:Thanks for the comments so far..
To answer a few comments..
I may do this myself (still deciding). The bolts on both manifolds are less than 30 days old, as are the crappy stock manifolds.. I just want to be sure I can secure the rest of the pipes to the new headers.. I do have a very reputable mechanic whom I can work with (not free though  )
I have 2 weeks planned for travel in August so my goal is to have it completed by then.. Currently the manifold is not very loud, and my experience has taught me it will grow with every use.. However after reading some comments here, I WILL NOT be using it until fixed, as I do not want to damage my NEW HEADS (2 years ago)..
As it stands (so far) I think I will be going with Thorley's stainless steel (not the ceramic), this seems to be the "best" option with my current circumstances..
As far as discounted headers.. Used, never mounted, would be nice.. Still looking but ready to bite the bullet for new ones.. Heck, I already bought new original stock manifolds this year for almost the same price..
Thank you everyone so far for the tips.. GREATLY APPRECIATED
Tony
Its NOT the stock manifolds fault....its the fault of the engineer(s) that designed them! ANY...repeat ANY exhaust flange one way or another is going to destroy either the manifolds or the heads themselves.
The manifold flanges HAVE TO HAVE the bolt holes SLOTTED...for the flange to be able to SLIDE under the bolt head when it gets hot and GROWS. The thermal coefficient of the 2 materials is entirely different. Even with SST headers with those thick flanges....they wont ruin the manifolds..but if you get ENOUGH heat into them...they will either..(1) break the bolts themselves..or (2) tear out chunks of the heads proper.
Take the front bolt hole and make it a SLOT by at least 1/16 of an inch. Work your way back to the last bolt hole that you make a slot of at least 3/16's. Use anti-seize on the NEW manifold bolts and torque properly ( Using light torque simply lets you get "gasket" leaks)
With the slotting of the holes...the manifolds when they get HOT can "slide( move actually) underneath the bolt heads. Its the nature of the beast when dealing with hot metals...their thermal coefficient. The more DIS-similar the worse it gets
2000 Country Coach Allure; Cummins ISC 330 HP; 71/2 - 8 MPG regardless
2002 Jeep Liberty
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Lt46
Cape Cod, Ma.
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I'm very satisfied with my 4 month old Thorley, ceramic coated headers on my coach. Did the install myself and will caution anyone who has the same plan...this job can be a bear! Thoroughly research what steps are required to R & R, what ancillary components must be loosened, removed yada,yada. On mine, due to rust and age, it seemed anything I touched with a wrench needed to be replaced. PB Blaster will be your friend. If on a Ford and air tubes are involved, check with Ford Parts and see just what tubes are available (most are discontinued parts AKA not available). Retapping head bolt holes is highly recommended. Having an assortment of wrenches both, long handle and offsets is recommended. As for Thorley components the fit was perfect and connection to the resonator and the rest of the exhaust system lined up beautifully. No issues with the Thorley's, just the work to get them in place.
Now, MPG gain is yet to be determined however, seat of the pants throttle response is dramatic. Engine is running much cooler (per dash gauge), fan clutch engagement has been reduced, tranny shift out of OD has been reduced considerably. Performance improvements are quite satisfactory. Good luck with your project. While this post may sound like a p*ss-n-moan type of post it really isn't. It's to inform that while the job is labor intensive,bloody knuckle job the end result is one of satisfaction and a sh*t eating grin that I can not get off my face.
Peter & Dawn
97 Winnebago Adventurer 37RW
96 Prowler 27X SOLD
IAFF L-792
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bill h
coastal reconquista
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webmaxm wrote: I think I will be going with Thorley's stainless steel (not the ceramic)
Thorley has stainless?
NOTE: Any incorrect spelling is intentional to prevent those annoying popups.
84 Barth 30Tag powered by HT502/Thorley/Weiand etc, Gear Vendors OD.
Siamese Calvin and Airedale Hobbes, 4WD Toyota toad
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Lt46
Cape Cod, Ma.
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bill h wrote:webmaxm wrote: I think I will be going with Thorley's stainless steel (not the ceramic)
Thorley has stainless?
Not that I'm aware of.
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webmaxm
?
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bill h wrote:webmaxm wrote: I think I will be going with Thorley's stainless steel (not the ceramic)
Thorley has stainless?
Oops.. I meant the silver ceramic coated..
Sully2.. Yes I agree this was not the manifolds, but Ford.. I also have a Ford Mustang GT and have dealt with these greedy people cutting corners on some critical components on this also..
I figure where I have to buy something anyway, as it has broken AGAIN!!! I will go with an after market header and enjoy the additional performance also..
Thank you very much for your very informative insight.. I wish I posted here 2 years ago at the start of this..
Tony
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Sully2
Cincinnati
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webmaxm wrote:bill h wrote:webmaxm wrote: I think I will be going with Thorley's stainless steel (not the ceramic)
Thorley has stainless?
Oops.. I meant the silver ceramic coated..
Sully2.. Yes I agree this was not the manifolds, but Ford.. I also have a Ford Mustang GT and have dealt with these greedy people cutting corners on some critical components on this also..
I figure where I have to buy something anyway, as it has broken AGAIN!!! I will go with an after market header and enjoy the additional performance also..
Thank you very much for your very informative insight.. I wish I posted here 2 years ago at the start of this..
Tony
I understand your situation...and things might not be so bad IF the car companys didnt charge WAY BEYOND any sensible price for stock manifolds. I priced a set for a 454 once...and was still laughing 3 days later. A pair of stock...cast iron 454 manifolds was $400 less than a COMPLETE Banks system....from the headers to the very end.
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bill h
coastal reconquista
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webmaxm wrote:bill h wrote:webmaxm wrote: I think I will be going with Thorley's stainless steel (not the ceramic)
Thorley has stainless?
Oops.. I meant the silver ceramic coated..
I wish the ceramic coated had been available when I bought my Thorleys.
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Gjac
Milford, CT
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I had a muffler shop put ceramic coated Thorley headers on in 2005 after having manifold leaks in 2004 and cracked manifolds in 2005. They made a big difference in performance and heat reduction. After 5 years I am noticing some rust on the cross over section of pipe where it attaches to the exhaust system. The rest looks pretty good. The heat shields around the spark plugs would not fit with the headers. But the 10mm spark plug wires had fiber glass or woven ceramic soxs around the spark plug boots to insulate from heat on them and worked fine. I think this was a great mod and would do it again if I had the 460 or the 454. Mine was the 454.
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