andrewsmark6
Colorado
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Joined: 07/24/2009
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russtburb,
If your towing is only 1200 miles/year, and your trailer is only 6klbs, then I would suggest a later model 1/2T Suburban with the 5.3L.
We tow a 7,000lb 5th wheel approximately 6500 miles/year with a 1/2T 5.3L pickup. We get 11mpg towing, and 19+mpg empty.
I assume that this Suburban will also be used as your daily driver. If so, you'll be disappointed with the fuel economy of an 8.1L 3/4T.
'08 Chevy K1500 long bed 5.3L / 4.10
26' Keystone-Springdale 5th wheel (7060# loaded, 1390# pin weight)
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JJBrown
Whitby, Ontario, Canada
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I tow a 7000lbs(GVW)KZ with a 2005 Yukon Denali XL. These 1/2t suv's where designed for towing lighter loads. 6.0l motor, 373 rear gear, HD cooling package. It tows well. That being said I have added components to make my towing experience more enjoyable.
With your trailer weight you have two options in my opinion;
1) A Yukon Denali XL or 2006 Burb LTZ (same truck as Denali) would tow your trailer well.
2) An 8.1L 2500 burb or yukon XL. A 2500 6.0L will tow just fine but if i'm driving a big pig than I would rather have the extra 100ft/lbs of torque over an extra 1-2MPG unloaded milage.
If I ever find a 2500 8.1L unit up here (hard to find in Canada) I will be making a switch from my current set up.
* This post was
edited 03/08/10 01:03pm by JJBrown *
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russtburb
northwest
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UGH! This isn't getting any easier! I currently tow with my 72 suburban with a 402 and get 7-7.5 towing. and maybe 9 highway. I have never had my trailer weighed fully loaded. I towed it down to the Oregon coast once with my Brother-in-law's E350 van and I know that the 5.4L struggled up some hills it was working hard and that was not MT. Passes either. I think I am going to go with the 3/4ton 8.1. I would love to tow my trailer with a half ton just to see how it goes. However I know the running gear is not desined for that. 3/4 ton = bigger brakes, Transmision etc. I know some folks with the 1/2 ton that have had to do fuel pumps and transmisions with in 4 months of each other, and even though I am a mechanic by trade, parts are spendy!
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JJBrown
Whitby, Ontario, Canada
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You can't go wrong with a 3/4t unit. Then you don't have to wonder should I have gone bigger.....and the obvious, you have room to go bigger! Good luck with your search.
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russtburb
northwest
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Thanks JJBrown. I found a 3/4 ton 8.1L in Canada! Sorry, its on the west coast though. I am still looking. I don't know if its worth it to go through all the hoops!
Dennis
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Tystevens
SLC, Utah
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We fit what you have been describing almost exactly. We have an '05 1500 Sub, 5.3l, 4x4 LT w/ 4.10 gears and hd tow package, towing a 27 ft bunkhouse trailer, dry wt. 5200 lbs on the sticker, about 6k lbs loaded to go. Loaded w/ 2 kids, full tanks and necessary gear, we're usually a little overloaded on the truck axles (~7500 lbs., have been as high as 8100 lbs w/ 4 adults, 2 kids on a 10 day trip out to the Oregon coast), and GCVW of 13,500 or so. I put E-rated tires on after weighing in over 14k on the trip w/ 6 people. Living in Utah w/ family in Oregon, we have towed between here and there 4 trips in the last 2 years, including trips up and down the coast on a couple occasions. So we've put our tow rig thru plenty of mountains, wind, etc. I waivered between an Excursion and 3/4 Sub before going with the 1/2 ton for reasons I'll describe in a bit.
Long story short, after two summers of RV'ing w/ that setup, I bought an '06 ccsb 2500HD w/ Duramax LBZ engine last month, because I was sick of the long trips in the Sub. I haven't got to tow with it yet, but I got the Equilizer hitch set up on Saturday, and we're planning our first short trip of the year this or next weekend, weather permitting.
I'll try to answer your questions, as best I can:
russtburb wrote:
1. Does anyone tow with there 1/2 ton burb and what kind of mileage does one get when towing 6k lbs, with the 5.3L?
We average about 9.5 on the Utah-Oregon trips, going about 55 mph average. Same trip w/o trailer, avg. 17.5 @ 75 mph.
2. What kind of normal issues should I expect with either 1/2ton or 3/4ton models? Fuel pump at 120K for example. 4l60e's nuking at 160k etc.
Our Sub. has been perfect, owned since '07, purchased w/ 55k miles, now has 101k. We kept it despite purchasing the truck b/c we like the vehicle so much. Engine temp has never reached the middle line, no problems w/ tranny or anything else.
3. How do you read the option codes in the glove box to find the gear ratio?
There are websites explaining the codes. I just know some key ones, including axle ratios, etc.
4. Obviously the lower the miles the better but how many miles can you expect out of these things before major issues? I see plenty on the inter-weby that have well over 200k miles and they claim they still run well.
As mentioned above, 101k miles w/ only routine maintenance. My dad has a '99, 5.7l, just under 300k miles w/ only a few issues. He doesn't tow heavier than a 3k popup or atv trailer, though.
5. How bad is the 6.0L Ford PSD anyway? I work in public Transit and I have heard tons of horror stories about them in that application. Are they that bad?
I've never owned one, but after extensively researching them, I would not hesitate to buy an '05 if I had to seat more than 5 people on a regular basis -- the engine can be made reliable, and the Torqshift tranny is very good. I would be concerned about an earlier model 6.0l, and the 7.3's are getting hard to find w/ reasonable mileage. From my shopping, any diesel Ex for sale is pretty rare, as those who own them hold on to them, given they probably have a need for its unique capabilities.
We drove diesel Excursions and 3/4 ton Subs w/ both engines before deciding on the 1500. My wife didn't like the Ex, and the diesel was very expensive if you could find one(given scarcity and the fact that us Utahn's like big vehicles!). Since it is her daily driver, she had veto power, and she exercised it (although an '05 Ex. 6.0 would have been my preference at the time). As far as the GM 6.0 gas engine goes, I dont see enough difference in power to justify the poorer mileage. I've driven my bro-in-law's '08 1500 sub w/ 6.0 and 4 spd trans to compare, and I can't feel much of a difference. I think a 3/4 ton sub w/ 6.0, 6-spd trans and 4.10 gears would probably be an acceptable setup, but you'd have to go '08 or '09 (not sure the exact year they started making the 6 spds in the 2500 subs). The 8.1 is a beast, but you'll be looking at single digit mileage towing or in town, I'd bet; couldn't justify the poor mileage, at least in retrospect, given we didn't know how much we'd use the trailer and it would be our family hauler, towing or not.
Which is why we found a 1500 w/ 4.10 gears and decided to give it a shot. We also didn't plan to buy as big of a trailer as we did, but you know how shopping goes -- a 4k lb trailer probably would be doable w/ our Sub. But honestly, the Sub. didn't hold us back, and I hate badmouthing the it. It got us safely up and down every hill we aimed for, including Siskyou (1-5 at Ashland), Cabbage Hill (I-84 at Pendleton), and Parley's Summit (I-80 east of Salt Lake -- we climb that one several times a summer), which are 3 of the most notorious grades in the Interstate system. Not to mention several much steeper state highways and even dirt roads to primitive sites way out there. It is a comfortable, smooth, and good looking rig.
It was just frustrating to drive 800 miles w/ the transmission locked in 3rd, engine turning 3k rpms all the time. Honestly, the flat lands were more irritating than the hills -- in the hills, you know you're going to go slow, there are usually curves which restrict speed anyway, and it is kind of fun strategizing your way to the top (my wife thinks I'm crazy). But in the flats, loaded down, bicycles on the roof, etc, the slightest headwind or rise in the road causes a downshift out of 4th. I'd imagine a fourth gear would be useless in a 5.3 sub w/ 3.73 or 3.42 gears. With approximately 600 lbs tongue weight from the trailer, the rear end also sagged a lot, requiring a lot of equalizing of the load, which seems to screw w/ the steering and front suspension of the GM torsion bar vehicles -- a level ride resulted in scary steering(see other posts here). It drove pretty well once we found an acceptable setup, and always felt under control (even when heavy), but the best setup for the equalizer hitch seemed to result in an inch or so of sag on the rear end, making for plenty of hitch dragging in driveways, etc.
Wow, I've written quite a novel here for my first post. In conclusion, if we were only taking short local trips, I wouldn't have seen much of a need to buy the Duramax -- an extra few minutes and gallon or so of gas don't justify the extra cost. But in the west, taking long road trips, I wasn't ultimately happy w/ a 1500 Suburban towing the load you have stated. Plus, now I can buy a bigger trailer!
* This post was
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edited 03/08/10 05:58pm by Tystevens *
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2008 Hornet Hideout 27B
2006 Chevy Silverado 2500HD ccsb 4x4 LT, Duramax LBZ (current TV)
2005 Chevy Suburban 1500 4x4 LT, 5.3 L, 4.10 gears, LT package (retired from TV duty)
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russtburb
northwest
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WOW!! Thank you Tystevens! That was pretty much the most amazing post I have ever read! Thank you for taking so much of your personal time to answer my questions. Your answers are very thoughtful and informative. I AM trying to encourage the wife to buy a Duramax but I'm not having much luck. I feel that a Duramax or a Cummins would probably (hopefully) be the last truck I buy and that is saying something as I am not THAT old. Only 37.
Well I was seriously eyeballin a BURB with the 8.1 this weekend, I just didn't pull the trigger quick enough and they sold it. I have one hurdle left to go before I can do it. April 15th ring a bell? I'll keep looking and if that "once in a lifetime" deal comes up I'll grab it. I'm hoping that patients pays off! But I'm not a patient kinda guy either.
As of this moment in time: 1:16am PST, March 9, 2010, I am pretty sure its going to be a 3/4 ton 8.1L. My reasons are simple, a half ton may pull my trailer, but a 3/4 ton will do it better. A 6.0L with 4:10 gears will do it, but the 8.1 will do it better. And since I can't find out how to get ahold of that DURABURB guy,(cause a Duramax suburban would do it the best!) I'll go big *block* or go home!!
Thanks all and keep posting specs on your rigs please! I am pretty much obsessed with trucks and Mileage and stuff!!
Dennis
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Tystevens
SLC, Utah
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No problem -- happy to help. I know how it feels to obsess over mileage and truck info.
One plus of buying the 3/4 ton Sub is you can upgrade to the Duraburb in the future. I understand that there are a companies you can take a 3/4 ton Sub to who will install the Duramax and Allison in your rig. I don't think they will do it with a 1/2 ton, and anyway, a 6.6 Duramax in a 1/2 ton would be overkill. Now, if GM would make that 4.5 Duramax they had planned for this year . . .
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russtburb
northwest
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I've seen Youtube videos for the "DURABURB" guy, he puts a duramax in a Cadilac escalade, a Tahoe..etc. 1/2 ton? NO problem. Maybe you should look into having your converted! I can't seam to locate his home page or a phone number or anything. I would seriously give him a call if I could get it. I'll keep looking.
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Oldtymeflyr
Littleton, CO
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Joined: 04/18/2004
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If you are really serious about coverting to a Duraburb then get the 6.0 3/4 ton unit. You are paying a premium for the 8.1, they can be hard to find and go fast. Why pay more for something you are going to get rid of any way.
We have over 250,000 in 3/4 Suburbans both the 454 and the 8.1. The 8.1 is a great vehicle and is a much better multipurpose vehicle then a Duramax diesel pickup, We have a Duramax at the present time, we like it but is a different vehicle from the Suburban. At this stage in our life the Duramax works, it would not have worked when my wife was hauling kids all over the place.
People who own diesels like to talk about how durable they are. Go to DieselPlace and participate in the forum for a month or so. It can be a nightmare and its not nearly as bad as the Ford diesel forums and the 6.0PSD.
Fuel usages is mistakenly tied to engine size, in the carb days that was true. Now, with some pretty good EFI systems, and GM has very good EFI systems, you will find little mileage difference at the same horsepower/torque loads.
A 3/4 ton Suburban with 6.0 going 60 mph will burn the same amount as a 8.1 going 60 mph all other things being equal. The problem with the 8.1 is that right foot enjoys the power and more fuel is used and the 8.1 can produce a lot of power using a lot of fuel, the 6.0 just cannot match the fuel consumption of the 8.1 with the foot on the ground. It takes discipline to get 12 mpg around town and 14 mpg on the highway with a medium load.
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