jeff1nat
California
New Member
Joined: 03/03/2010
View Profile
 Offline
|
We have a 2009 Bounder that we are using on a photo shoot as our crew restrooms. We are traveling to the Lake Tahoe area next week, and am wondering how I should handle the water tanks in the winter weather. We will be in Tahoe for 3 days, and I would like to continue using fresh water and have toilets workable. Can I pour non toxic antifreeze in all the tanks and run the heater inside to keep the tanks from freezing? Or, do I drain all the tanks and not use them at all? Temps in Tahoe have been in the mid 30's by day, teens to 20's in the evening. Anybody have experience with short term usage of water tanks in the winter?
|
pianotuna
Regina, SK, Canada
Senior Member
Joined: 12/18/2004
View Profile
Offline
|
Hi jeff1nat,
As Polonious said: Know thyself. For an RV'er this means they need to know what type of equipment they have before venturing out in bad weather in the winter (i.e. Size of the battery-bank; type and amp-hour rating of their converter/charger; and the current state of charge of the battery-bank). To do otherwise may be foolhardy.
Some of these suggestions only work for motorized units.
If the grey and black water tanks are enclosed and heated then the RV is a big step towards being able to be used in harsh winter weather. If the waste tank area is not heated consider adding a thermostatically controlled heater. I use a 500 watt interior car warmer with a mechanical thermostat. There are also specialized tank heaters some of which work on both shore power and twelve volt power.
It is prudent to know how low the temperature may be. Check the weather history for a year ago for the week in the location you may be heading to. It won't be perfect but at least you may have some idea of what to expect.
The water system may be quite robust and usable so long as there is sufficient propane available to keep it thawed. I have used my RV at -37 C (-34 F). I've also boondocked for 5 days where the daily high was -24 C and in blizzard conditions so my solar panels may not have contributed much electrical charging. Do leave the cupboard doors open to allow warm are to circulate. I have another thermostatically controlled electric heater beside my water pump.
If there is access to “shore power” then adding a radiant heater (or two) may lighten the load on the propane furnace. Do keep the heaters further away from the thermostat at night. Do not add so much electric heat that the furnace doesn't run at all. That is an invitation to freeze the fresh water pipes.
If no shore power is available then a generator system may be needed. Most of the systems in an RV need reliable 12 volt power for their control systems—no power translates into no heat from the furnace. When running the generator, use as many electrical heaters as you can. I suggest 3 hours in the evening before bed, and 2 hours in the morning. Don't forget to have enough capacity to run the engine block heater, too.
I have a load divider which allows me to run a heater as well as the block heater at the same time. It alternates between the two. Some folks use one timer on a heater—and another on the block heater so as to not overload the electrical outlets the RV is plugged into.
Some folks have an additional outlet added through the wall of their RV. This is powered by a #12 cord plugged into a 15 or 20 amp outlet on the power pedestal. They then plug in a 1500 watt heater to help keep the RV warm. This is particularly useful to those of us who have only a 30 amp service in our RV's.
On a temporary basis (say 30 minutes), while you are awake, it is possible to use the stove top as a blue flame heater. Do not run them full blast, and never leave them unattended. DO NOT SLEEP WITH THEM ON. This may lessen the load on the batteries.
Be aware that battery capacity drops as temperatures become lower. Some enterprising folks do have heated battery compartments. These heaters operate from the generator or from shore power. Running such heaters via an inverter is a zero sum proposition at best and at worst will decrease the total run time of the system.
If the RV will be used often in harsh conditions I suggest considering a vented catalytic heater such as the Platinum Cat. ( http://www.ventedcatheater.com/ )
If there are not dual pane windows, or if the RV will be used in extreme cold it may be prudent to have blankets that can be placed over them at night.
Moisture build up can be a problem. This may seem counter intuitive—but open a roof vent and a window. Not all the way, but enough to let hot moist air rise up and out of the RV. Try to pick a window where no one will be in the “breeze”. It may be wise to place an electric heater next to that window to try to warm the air up.
Consider adding a “mud flap” in front of the part of the sewer connection that extends from the bottom of you RV. This will help prevent ice build up from slush on the roadway.
I also block off the cab area of my Class C with a thick woolen blanket. This reduces the heated area and reduces propane consumption.
I have another blanket that I hang over the entry door.
Park with the nose of the RV into the wind. Wind direction may change direction overnight—but at least start out that way.
If the floors are linoleum purchase some carpet “runners” to keep your feet warmer. Don't block off the floor heating vents.
The RV stores often sell vent pillows that help to keep the heat in (and in summer time keep the heat out).
Twelve volt mattress pads and heating blankets are a lovely addition to cold weather camping and allow the furnace to be set back to a lower temperature in the evening. They usually draw about 7 amps each.
Always carry enough RV antifreeze, and the necessary tools, to rewinterize should something prevent use of the furnace. It is far better to have an ounce of prevention than a pound of cure.
Keep the fuel tank nearly full—the dash heater can be used as a temporary back up to the furnace should the propane supply fail.
I find that my dash heater works best for heating the rear of my RV if I set it on defrost while I trundle down the road.
I do not have a slide on my RV. If possible I'd recommend not putting the slide out. It will go out fine—but the next day it may be difficult to retract it.
I'm sure others may have additional suggestions for you! Have a great trip!
Regards, Don
Kustom Koach Class C 28'5" 256 watts solar, 875 amp hours in two battery banks 12 volt batteries 2500 watt inverter.
|
skipnchar
Topeka or somewhere else
Senior Member
Joined: 12/17/2003
View Profile
|
OR you could just turn on the heat inside the RV and keep on using it. That's how MOST do it. Good luck / Skip
2011 F-150 HD Ecoboost 3.5 V6. 2550 payload, 17,100 GCVWR -
2004 F-150 HD (Traded after 80,000 towing miles)
2007 Rockwood 8314SS 34' travel trailer
US Govt survey shows three out of four people make up 75% of the total population
|
gbopp
The Keystone State
Senior Member
Joined: 08/03/2008
View Profile
Offline
|
I would listen to the advice given by pianotuna.
If he can use his RV at -37 and boondock 5 days with a high of -24 and blizzard conditions, I think he can talk you through a few days at Lake Tahoe.
-37??? I'll never complain about the 'cold' Pennsylvania winters again........(yes I will, just not as much) 
|
sowego
northwest panhandle of Nebraska
Senior Member
Joined: 03/14/2006
View Profile
|
As previous poster Don said...it is doable but takes considerable work and the correct conditions to make it work.
The coach will need to be fully heated, with reliable 24/7 power. 2 people using a coach with full fresh water and empty waste tanks boondocking with generator running as needed or hooked to at least power can make it 3 to 4 days. 10 people using toilet and sinks...could be an overfill.
If you have that fulltime power source...in mountain winter conditions...one tank of propane should be enough for 3 to 4 days but be forewarned...if temps drop to sub-zero or your propane tank is small...you could run out. Should that be a worry...be sure to have the needed connectors to attach to additional propane tanks.
Be sure you have someone knowledgeable with winter camping and motorhomes with the coach full time to avoid serious problems because it is entirely possible if the heat should shut down, pipes or pump freeze...you could end up with a mess on your hands. Most newer pipes are not as likely to freeze but the fitting can pop off, big time leak...
It is possible to use the waste tanks with the fresh system winterized with safe antifreeze and flush toilet with at least some antifreeze. But should the mix get off the tank could freeze solid at mountain overnight temps and render the system useless especially if there is no heat. If it freezes solid without heat..it is a bear to thaw it out to dump the tank again!
The interior of the coach is important to heat but keeping the pump, pipes and tank bay warm is vital!!!
If everything goes well...you will add a lot of comfort for your film crew. If it does not...you'll have a cold box with no functioning bathroom.
Good luck.
2002 Tiffin Phaeton
2005 Malibu Maxx toad
|
|
|
CSpenceFLY
Macon,Ga
Senior Member
Joined: 06/12/2006
View Profile
Offline
|
If it is real cold I put shop lights in my lower bays to keep the tanks and water lines warm
"You're lucky to be alive my friend."
Quote from the "Do it yourself police" and many others that have known me.
|
pianodan
Pine River, MN, USA
Senior Member
Joined: 03/10/2003
View Profile
Offline
|
Here's what I posted on another forum for someone traveling from the west to the east coast of Canada next week:
I've done a lot of cold weather driving in my coach. If your basement stays above the freezing point, the waste tanks (and fresh water if it's there as well) should be fine. To make sure, start up your furnace (s) this week, buy an inexpensive remote thermometer, put one in the basement and the monitor in the coach. See what the temp is in the basement, it should keep it warm enough for the fluids to stay fluid (mine does). I would also pour a gallon of RV antifreeze in the toilet and down the drains, open the drain valves up to the dump valve and then close them to keep that line from freezing.
The other thing I do for cold weather operation is to cut out aluminum faced styrofoam insulation to put in all of my vents, it effectively blocks the entry of cold air. If you don't have double pane windows, go to your local hardware store and buy the window insulation kits (shrink plastic) and use them on all your coach windows, it does the job real well. The only windows I didn't do this to was my front windows where the mirrors are and my windshield.
The kitchen sink area is a spot that freezes quickly as well. If you're going to keep the lines there from freezing, I suggest getting some heat tape to put on those lines, your convertor can power them with no problem. I used a couple of 15w de-humidifier bars that I had around for a grand piano humidity control system (I'm a piano tech).
We made a trip to Utah over Christmas and were able to use all our systems this way. On the return we encountered below 0 deg F weather with massive wind chills the closer we got to MN so we had to run the generator to power a 1500w heater to help keep us warm in the cab area. Our coach is really pretty well insulated but the windows radiated a lot of cold air that overpowered the dash heat as well as the front furnace because it wasn't ducted far enough forward to help (something I'm correcting this year).
Hope this helps.
Dan
And the shop lights in bay that Spence mentioned are good too. Just make sure they're away from flammables.
'91 FRED 35' Oshkosh Journey ('89 chassis)
'93 6BT5.9L Cummins 230 HP TC wastegated/intercooled,Allison 545 4 speed
'74 Jeep CJ6
'80 Suzuki GS850L
FMCA F326065
Pine River, MN
BT1(SW)USNret '95
|
JUrban
Delaware
Senior Member
Joined: 06/28/2004
View Profile
Offline
|
We had a 2005 Diesel Bounder and had a few problems with it. The rear heat goes about 40% to the wet bay where the tanks and valves are. The only problem we had was the water heater was in the rear and the water line to the heater would freeze if you weren't using hot water on a regular basis. You can help your system by leaving all under sink doors open so the warm air can get to the pipes. Also, make sure the refrig ice maker is winterized, and that your refrig is on to keep other things from freezing in that area.
The water pipes in the RV are PEX and can be frozen with no problems, but the fittings will split if frozen solid. Antifreeze in the tanks should not be necessary if you're using the tanks and keep the heat on. However, if there is a washer in the rig, that should be winterized and antifreeze put into the drain trap for it, the shower and any sink not being used.
John
2008 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40' QSP
2006 Chevrolet Colorado Toad
BlueOx Aventa LX Tow Bar
SMI Air Force One toad brake
Copilot Live Laptop 10 GPS
|
