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RE: 2012 Montana 3700Rl Big Sky
Well we properly took care of our graphics on our 2006 Montana and they peeled and shrunk anyhow.
Should be easier to properly take care of paint.Bottom line did not pay near 5K for the full body paint.
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richfaa
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05/25/12 06:15pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Do I need duels, and do I need engine brake?
Does not the 2009 F-350 have the Tow haul mode?? it works fine for us. Need the dually for carry capacity and the GCWR is in question. You may not have enough truck...to stay within spec,s..If that means anything to you....otherwise....it will pull it fine..
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richfaa
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05/25/12 07:14am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Buying 5th camper from Camping world?
I see it as no different than the purchase from any dealer.The negotiating skills are yours.The buyer controls the purchase not the salesman.
For the frequent traveller there as a advantage to buying from C.w as that dealer is all over the country for warranty work or other work.
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richfaa
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05/24/12 06:51am |
Camping World RV Sales
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RE: 2012 Montana 3700Rl Big Sky
We also opted out from the Big Sky edition because of clear coat burn out, like with some cars. Whats that?
Yea..whats that..we went with the Big Sky paint to avoid pelling and shrinking graphics,,,
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richfaa
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05/23/12 03:52pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: New Montana 3402
On another forum I promised never to make another post on a gun thread.Here I promise never to respond to a post by Arizona and his twin brother again. They both draw me in and I know better..
We are awaiting our new 3402 Big Sky and we are going to enjoy.
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richfaa
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05/19/12 09:07pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: New Montana 3402
The initial cost to improve quality can be very high in terms of equipment and employee training and maintaining that level of training.It has been my experience that creating and implementing a process that will change the culture of a organization to improve quality, among other things, takes at least two years minimum and that is just the first phase.Once the process is in place the means to implement , equipment, training can take another year or so depending on the size and complexity of the organization.
You are correct in your theory and it does work in the long term and with a large investment by the organization.IMO it is worth the investment but the RV industry is doing fine as they are and it is doubtfull any one manufacturere will chance that initial invesment.
IMO it will take a Japenese buyout of a RV company with their work ethic and process to make that change. That it has not occured with all the Rv companies going belly up tells me they do not see the RV industry as worth the investment.
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richfaa
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05/19/12 06:11am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Full hookup at home
We have one also. 50 amp, water, sewer right alongside the S&B. Rv is on all the time.It is real handy.
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richfaa
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05/19/12 05:56am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: New Montana 3402
Just another reason why a longer manufacturer's warranty is so important.
I do not disagree with that but since tnhe cost of warranty is included in the price of the RV the price would increase. Increased quality IMO has little to do with the quality of vendor provided material as there can be a wide range of qualty to choose from.
The problem is with the quality of workmanship in the construction and the level of quality control in the industry.
Increasing the amount of the warranty period with out addressing the other quality issues would not IMO make a better RV.
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richfaa
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05/18/12 01:15pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: New Montana 3402
On a plant Tour and I will use the Montanas as the example as we have taken that tour many times. You can observe the process from the frame and axles entering the first assembly station and every station to the finished product going out the door.I believe there are 14/16 stations along the way. Every stage of assembly is open to view. I do agree about the Management culture of the organization as I have a bit of experience in that field. one can draw many conclusions as to that culture by observing the workforce and the assembly process.
The assembly line is not a special line for tours only it is the line that is working every day. One can see the internal build quaity as all the things one can not see in the finished product are hanging out for all to see on the line...It is a enlightening experience.Some of the manufacturers do NOt allow pictures taken on their tours...I wonder why???
I have said before that if every buyer of a RV took the plant tour there would be a good chance that many would take up Golf instead.
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richfaa
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05/17/12 05:09pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: New Montana 3402
A plant tour can be very in depth any brand. On the tours we took during working hours we had plenty of time to observed each building process and ask questions.
During our Montana rally we tour the Montana Plant on a Saturday and the plant is all ours. Keystone Management is there conducting the tours and asking our input.
The culture at the plants is much the same as the workforce is much the same. The Rv plants draw from the same workforce pool in that area.
One can pretty much identity Management culture by observing the workforce, Observing the workplace environment and asking questions.
Every plant looks and feels pretty much the same.
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richfaa
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05/17/12 09:24am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: New Montana 3402
Our 3402 Big Sky should be here any day.The 2nd bath and 6 point leveling system was a must have. Hope the paint job takes care of the graphics issue. We have been unloading our 06 3400 Montana for a week. Can not believe the "stuff" in there. It will NOT go all back.
This will be our 6th Rv and the first time we purchased the same brand. Not saying the Montana is better than any of the others but coud not find another that we thought was better.
You hit the nail on the head , Quote : " Not saying the Montana is better than any of the others but could not find another that we thought was better ". That is hard for some here on the forum to grasp, yes they all have problems. I have been very fortunate to have owned two Montana's with very few problems. Some are convinced that longer warranties, or the known higher end are somehow going to be better, when in reality, and this is something you have pointed out time and again, they are built by the same work force,same vendors ,etc.
Have you looked at all the engineering drawings of each manufacturer and compared each feature such as frame specifications & dimensions, wall/ceiling/floor specifications/construction, specifications for all material used, etc, etc. Until one does that diligently, one cannot say they are all the same.
The answer to that is no as it would be a long and tedious task and I don't think I would understand much of what we saw as we are not engineers. Having the advantage of being in the Elkhart area for several days each year we have talked to and asked question of Lippert as to frame design.Specifications can be found on the manufactureres web sites.
We have interacted with just about every vendor and been to most of their plants..
They are still more alike than different.Don't know If we will have better luck with this RV or not. We do know there have been many improvements in 6 years.....and..... we will get another Extended warranty.
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richfaa
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05/16/12 04:35pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: New Montana 3402
Our 3402 Big Sky should be here any day.The 2nd bath and 6 point leveling system was a must have. Hope the paint job takes care of the graphics issue. We have been unloading our 06 3400 Montana for a week. Can not believe the "stuff" in there. It will NOT go all back.
This will be our 6th Rv and the first time we purchased the same brand. Not saying the Montana is better than any of the others but coud not find another that we thought was better.
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richfaa
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05/16/12 07:43am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Montana 5th wheels
The only thing that we had against Montana is that it is made by Keystone. I don't think that Keystone makes quality products.
We bought a Cedar Creek, and it is a great 5th wheel, even tho it is a lot heaver than we thought it would be.
WHATEVER you buy, be carefull about the weight and length of the 5th wheel. You don't want one that is heaver than you plan. I thought the Cedar Creek we bought would weigh between 11,000 pounds and 12,000 pounds. The weight of the 5th wheel is over 14,000 pounds. Luckly the F350 can pull the trailer. However, I think that our tires are on the weight limits, as well as the axles. The STs are made in China, and should be replaced soon.
I think that our Cedar Creek is heaver on the left side (drivers side).
Our trailer is about 37 feet long, and is not easy to tow arond. That extra 3 or 4 feet really makes a real difference.
ken
If you would tour the plant that makes the cedar creek which is not far from the Montana Plant you would not know which plant you were in.
Same workforce make up same vendors same construction methods, they come in at the same times and leave at the same times.
Forest river makes a lot of rv's as does keystone all price ranges, They are both still in business wwhere other so called higher end brands are not.I would not have a problem with the purchase of either brand if it fit our needs.
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richfaa
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05/14/12 10:16am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Montana 5th wheels
I think I agreed that a longer manufacturers warranty was a good thing.When the RV manufacturers give the warranty it makes things easier to deal with as one deals directly with the manufacturer and not the individual vendors.
It is a marketing tool as there is no documentation to confirm that a longer warranty improves quality. As has been said the cost of warranty is built into the purchase price.
We are not full timers but long timers who use this Rv hard and it is true the more you use a product the more likely you will see failures that those who only use it for recreational use...These are after all RECREATIONAL vehicles.
I had posted before that we put more road miles on this 5th wheel in one year than we put on our previous 5 rv's combined over 20+ years. 2011 was a low year with @ 6k miles. This 5th wheel has @ 60K road miles on it in 6 years.
Some of our great roads have beat it to death
Landmarks 12 inch frame is IMO a must for the high use full timer as would be the Mor Ryde IS system. Most full timers can choose where they go and the enviroment that stay in but they still have to get there on our highway system and that is the killer of any 5th wheel. IMO of course.
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richfaa
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05/14/12 08:41am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Montana 5th wheels
Just for the drill. List all the vendor provided items that have a two year warranty or longer.The manufacturer may not actually warranty very much. remember most manufacturers manufacture nothing.The assemble a Rv from vendor materials and these materials are warrantied by the vendor for varying periods of time. Like Brad says...Great marketing and cost them nothing.If your A/C fails withing the vendor warranty period the vendor pays the bill not the RV manufacturer.
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richfaa
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05/13/12 06:52pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Montana 5th wheels
It is wise to look for a longer than 1 year factory warranty if you intend to fulltime
That is very true. It is also wise..IMO ..To purchase a extended warranty (service contract) Our Extended warranty has served us well .
Remember the one year warranty is the Rv manufacturers warranty. Many of the vendor provided items have longer warranties.
Extended warranties DO NoT cover items if they are still under the vendor provided warranty.Also check your insurance policies to see
what if any Rv failures they will cover.
Our new unit have the one year manufacturers warranty and our ex tended warranty that can be transferred to the new one will have 6 months left on it after the end of the one year manufacturers warranty. We will then purchase another extended warranty.
The good sam product...I think..
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richfaa
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05/13/12 01:51pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Montana 5th wheels
There are all kinds of full timing.There are folks who follow the jobs around the country and full time. They may never know where the job is or in what climate.They need if affordable true full time rig. There are work camper full timers and they may take a job anywhere in any season. Most full timers are able to choose their climate so may not need a true full time rig. We are not full timers but long timers but still live in our rig up to 9 months of the year.We stay in moderate climates and do not need to spend the $$ on a true full time rig.
Folks full time in all brands all price ranges. The INTERIOR of our 06 3400 Montana has held up very well over the last 6 years of long timing. Carpets, cabinets, appliances. Out fridge just lost the cooling unit after 6 years of continuous use except for defrost time.Our 1/2 time oven oven failed under warranty.
Examine your needs and style of rving carefully. Purchase what you need and will use..
In the first year
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richfaa
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05/13/12 12:04pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Montana 5th wheels
It was well known that we used our extended warranty as well as Keystone taking care of issued we asked them to take care of. You are again beating the Keystone horse....again
You are gonna have to change your name again.Don't know why we posted this as it will not last as well it should not.
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richfaa
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05/11/12 09:25pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Montana 5th wheels
Think one of the deleted post was mine in reply to a post from Lost in Az. I shoud not have replied. I know better.... but sometimes .......
BTW My 06 3400 with a build date of April 2006 had 6 K axles. a 3400 with a build date of July 2006 had 7K axles .
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richfaa
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05/11/12 05:53pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Thermal Pane
Thermal pane and dual pane although used interchangeably can be very different.. Look it up. Dual pane in a Rv usually means just that. Two panes of glass.Thermal pane in the home means two panes of glass properly seperated and filled with a inert gas. There can be a big difference.
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richfaa
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05/07/12 01:46pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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