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RE: High End Super C vs DP
It is really kinda of silly to restrict a half million dollar coach from class A resorts.
I do not think the restriction makes sense, but I do not think redefining half a million dollar class C as Class A is the solution. If MONEY becomes the criteria, which is what you are really saying then why $500,000? why not $250,000? Why not a $250,000 fifth wheel?
What about a NEW $250,000 fifth wheel instead of an older super C that depreciated to $200,000? Why do we not redefine fifth wheels that cost over $250,000 as Class A?
Similarly, why not a NEW class 7 truck conversion that is worth more than an OLDER (4 years?) depreciated class 8 truck conversion as class A if it is WORTH more?
YOU may think it is silly (I do not like any of it personally) BUT I do not want to be defending (or be a member of) the WE with RVs over $XXX,000 coaches keep out the paupers RVs. Because once that starts someone is eventually going to say you a really trying to keep out minorities who can not afford RVs over $XXX,000 and that is in violation of FEDERAL housing laws. (I think I can hear a salivating attorney cheering some where).
Redefining Class C coaches as Class A based on what they COST is beyond SILLY and someone had better be able to fund a Class 8 truck load full of lawyers.
Dan,
I appologize if you took this as a "money" statement.....I did not mean it that way and the fact I DON'T frequent the class A only resorts and enjoy being in camps that allow everyone really defines what I meant, after all I sold my class A for my TC. My point was simply that many class A resorts DO WANT TO RESTRICT their facilities based on the type, age and cost of motorhomes. No one is fooled by the class A only "monicker" most understand exactly what they are doing....A generality may be that the class A travelers are older, not traveling with children, only have 2 travelers, retired ect....I know that is not everybody but do you ever notice how few children there are at class A only resorts?
I simply was drawing one of many analogies (as you did with expensive C's or 5th wheels) that there are lots of nice units no matter what classification out there, that would feel right at home next to a calss A coach. So what is the REAL reason they restrict entry?
I did not mean to pick on you in any way.
But the class A resorts seem to want to keep out the riff raff from their point of view and they use the class A as a fig leaf excuse that it is really not a "rich" mans club exclusion. I just see the whole thing falling apart at the seams if these resorts change it to class A and Expensive class C RVs. It just gets more obvious that it is based on cost of the RV and that is when they will run in to problems.
I agree their are lots of nice units in various types of RVs and I do not see any reason to start excluding anyone. But if it becomes obvious they exclude based on cost of RV I see big problems a head.
I agree......and as I said there are simply plenty of campgrounds that welcome everyone and in the long run that is what makes camping so fun and unique...you get to meet all kinds of folks on the road.
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JTHarley
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01/06/12 07:25am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: High End Super C vs DP
It is really kinda of silly to restrict a half million dollar coach from class A resorts.
I do not think the restriction makes sense, but I do not think redefining half a million dollar class C as Class A is the solution. If MONEY becomes the criteria, which is what you are really saying then why $500,000? why not $250,000? Why not a $250,000 fifth wheel?
What about a NEW $250,000 fifth wheel instead of an older super C that depreciated to $200,000? Why do we not redefine fifth wheels that cost over $250,000 as Class A?
Similarly, why not a NEW class 7 truck conversion that is worth more than an OLDER (4 years?) depreciated class 8 truck conversion as class A if it is WORTH more?
YOU may think it is silly (I do not like any of it personally) BUT I do not want to be defending (or be a member of) the WE with RVs over $XXX,000 coaches keep out the paupers RVs. Because once that starts someone is eventually going to say you a really trying to keep out minorities who can not afford RVs over $XXX,000 and that is in violation of FEDERAL housing laws. (I think I can hear a salivating attorney cheering some where).
Redefining Class C coaches as Class A based on what they COST is beyond SILLY and someone had better be able to fund a Class 8 truck load full of lawyers.
Dan,
I appologize if you took this as a "money" statement.....I did not mean it that way and the fact I DON'T frequent the class A only resorts and enjoy being in camps that allow everyone really defines what I meant, after all I sold my class A for my TC. My point was simply that many class A resorts DO WANT TO RESTRICT their facilities based on the type, age and cost of motorhomes. No one is fooled by the class A only "monicker" most understand exactly what they are doing....A generality may be that the class A travelers are older, not traveling with children, only have 2 travelers, retired ect....I know that is not everybody but do you ever notice how few children there are at class A only resorts?
I simply was drawing one of many analogies (as you did with expensive C's or 5th wheels) that there are lots of nice units no matter what classification out there, that would feel right at home next to a calss A coach. So what is the REAL reason they restrict entry?
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JTHarley
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01/06/12 06:19am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: High End Super C vs DP
WHAT is the definition of Class A?
The super Cs seem like really, really nice class C vehicles to me, but not class A vehicles, even if they are nicer than my Class A
reclassifying a class C as a class A seems like lawyer speak to me.
Why resorts restrict vehicles to Class A seems like a law suit ready to happen.
Now extra nice class Cs will be reclassified as Class A? I expect there is a lawyer salivating some where. :S
I met with the owner of Dynamax just prior to the sale to Berkshire. During the conversation he told me that this has apparently been going on for the last year or so. The fact is there are class B motorhomes, class C, Class A, Super C (defined by the MEDIUM DUTY) front ends and then there are TC class 8 (truck conversions) built on over the road heavy duty chassis's. These classifications where created years and years ago when there was only 3 designations. Super C units came about in the last 10 years and really didn't change anything since they are still technically a class C.
It is really kinda of silly to restrict a half million dollar coach from class A resorts. Of course it is the owners or association perogative to do so. In one community in Florida the "restrictions" where the only way the city would give a permit to build the resort, hence class A only, 10 years old or less. Property owners did not what they considered a "trailer park" in their neighborhood.
Many class A resorts are asking their owners to vote and amend the by-laws to allow TC's in...time will tell and so will the economy. I drove thru silver lakes today and there was not a site open....fifth wheels, class C coaches and class A's.......Pelican Lakes (class A only) had many sites open. I've been to Riverbend for 8 years (class A only) and have never seen them full even during peak season. From an economic standpoint it would make sense to expand the base of clientele to increase revenue.
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JTHarley
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01/05/12 06:25pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: High End Super C vs DP
SunnyGirl.....I think sending a picture does help....most of the class A resorts don't even know the difference between a super C and a class 8 truck conversion. As I stated earlier, only two of our visited class A resorts won't let us back...Riverbend in Florida (nice resort) and Hearthstone in Petosky Michigan. They happen to be affiliated with each other so it was no surprise. In Naples we are at the signature resort and are not the only class 8 here. There is also a signature resort in Petoskey so who cares if they won't let us in.
I've found that there are so many nice resorts that WILL welcome you another in Naples is silver lakes that has no problem with 5th wheels or super C's or class 8's. We knew this going into the purchase and I checked with many of the campgrounds and resorts we've visited in the last 8 years and was surprised at how many said "sure, we'd love to have you".
Hopefully this year the manufacturers of class 8 trucks will get what they have been working on for the last 2 years and that is to get these classified as "class A" vehicles. Most of the restricted resorts are because of the by-laws written many years ago before coaches like ours where even on the scene so it is simply a formality and once the registration says class A they will not be able to keep you out. But as I said, send a picture with the request and if the answer is no there are lots of places everywhere we travel between Michigan and Florida that are "resort" quality destinations that don't discriminate quite as much.
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JTHarley
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01/05/12 03:38pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Surge Protector's/Autoformer's
Absolutely worth it....one power surge or electrical problem at the campground and you could fry electronics. For the price ($250-400) it is a small price to pay to protect your coach. I've had one in each of my 5 RV's from my class B to my class A and now in my class 8 truck conversion.
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JTHarley
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01/05/12 03:29pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Wheelbase length make a difference in ride quality?
I went from a 36' class A diesel to a 45' TC.....Big, big difference in ride quality. When a semi or tanker passes I don't even know they go by..:)
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JTHarley
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01/03/12 01:46pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: High End Super C vs DP
If not for the safety issue the Class A would win by a mile IMO. Class A DP is a very nice design.
I think trying to compare a class 8 truck with a class A coach is like comparing apples and oranges.....It used to be that if you wanted the "luxury" feel and amenities you had to go to a class A. That simply is not true anymore. It's all about the ride of an over the road truck vs. a bus, the ease of maintenance, the improved mpg AND the style. There is no question that a class 8 is safer......but no one should be buying a motorhome with the intention of a "possible" head on accident.
The one big difference I noted on this trip is that I used to get driver fatigue after 6 or 7 hours of driving my class A diesel and it had IFS and drove great. In my new coach I drove over 10 hours on the first day out and I could have easily kept going if my eye lids didn't keep closing...LOL Remember, these motorhomes are designed on a chassis that truckers use to drive 10 hours a day everyday!! The ride is fabulous and no white nuckle experience.
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JTHarley
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01/01/12 06:30am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Lifting Tag Axle
My tag will lift completely off the ground which enables me to make tighter turns. When I lift it, the air bags on the drive axle fill all the way up and keeps the coach raised for such manuevers.
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JTHarley
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01/01/12 06:23am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: High End Super C vs DP
Comments in this thread about safety being a big advantage is way overstating the actual situation if you are driving a heavy built Class A made by Monaco, Bluebird, Newell, Country Coach, Foretravel, Travel Supreme or any of the other makers that basically wrap the occupants in a metal cage.
If you hit an overpass wall you are toast in either. If you hit a car or SUV both will protect you. I suppose there might be a tiny % of accidents where having the big motor out front is an advantage. But that chance is likely about the same chance as you getting bit by a shark on land. Possible, but unlikely.
The class A style bus offers many many advantages vis a vie the super C or class 8 RV. How many passenger buses do you see that are not class A style, zero, except for a few school buses?
I agree on the safety issue and would not encourage anyone to buy for that reason alone. Style, ease of maintenance, better mileage are much better reasons.
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JTHarley
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12/30/11 05:41am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: High End Super C vs DP
The original poster didn't ask for a debate as to what is better, just WHY you chose a Super C. I've had both and it is just a matter of personal preference. And yes, the class 8 truck conversions are NOT considered Super C's they are truck conversions......There is also a movement to get them reclassified by the manufacturers to be class A coaches and the registration would reflect that. It's been about 2 years now that they have been working on it.
I'm sitting at the signature resort in Naples, (a class A only resort) but the owners do allow "class 8" truck conversions. I'm right next to a prevost and I STILL would choose my coach over that one! I'm amazed that other A only resorts aren't allowing my style of coach......they let in 60-80K gasser class A's but turn away a coach that is over 500K, where is the logic in that? Well, so far I have only found 2 resorts that have said no to my coach. Riverbend in LaBelle Florida and Hearthstone in Petosky Michigan.
I simply send them a photo of my coach ahead of time and I'm in. While in Florida we are staying at all Class A resorts only so there are plenty that will welcome you.
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JTHarley
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12/29/11 04:04am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: High End Super C vs DP
I would rather have a http://libertycoach.com/available-coaches rather than a Super C too, since Super C's are banned by many nice RV parks all over the country.
So far I've only come across 2 that won't let me in..... Riverbed and lvmr in Vegas. All the signature resorts will allow class 8 RV's. There are so many nice resorts you CAN get into its just not a concern for me. This isn't a discussion on what is BETTER the op just asked why.... I've had 3 class A coaches and loved them. I simply enjoy the ride better, ease of mtnc. And style of my truck conversion.
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JTHarley
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12/24/11 07:09am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: High End Super C vs DP
Mine has no step down and the interior cab height is the same as the living area, 7 feet so you don't feel separate from the coach.
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JTHarley
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12/23/11 05:59pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: What thing(s) couldn't you live without? (Poll)
First would be my aqua hot unit.....simply love it compared to LP. Then would be the heated stone floors and I do like the residential fridge. The jury is out on the dishwasher in the coach and the washer/dryer combo. My DW believes that I am her automatic dish washer so I think I am going to like it ALOT.
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JTHarley
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12/22/11 03:01pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: High End Super C vs DP
A truck such as those the Super C's are based on, have been crash tested and have air bags, while most DP's (except Prevost) have never been crash tested. You certainly don't buy an RV thinking about crashing it, but bad stuff does happen.Crash tested??? I've seen some awfully nasty class 8, over the road, rigs after crashes that I sure would not wanted to have been it when they crashed! Just because the engine is out front of you doesn't make it any safer. I do have a friend who would not be here today had he not laid down across the floor when the crash occurred. The drivers side windshield would have decapitated him had he stayed in his seat. He found a job in a hardware store after that one.
There is no disputing the fact that having a 450 MBE in my front end vs. a class A with nothing in the front end is a bit safer, wouldn't you say? Every manufacturer of super C's or class 8 conversions touts the safety WHEN COMPARED TO A CLASS A. None of us want to ever get in a crash but I will take my chances if it does happen with my class 8 truck vs. my old class A!!!
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JTHarley
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12/22/11 11:54am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Merry Christmas! Happy travels
Merry Christmas Everyone!!! Leaving for Florida on the 26th....honk if you see me on the freeway...
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JTHarley
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12/22/11 10:56am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: High End Super C vs DP
I have looked and compared and the class A won out the last two times. The truck conversion will likely win out if there is a next time. You bet they "out perform" class A coach's generally speaking. Biggest knock for me is a little less living space and the drive shaft displacing basement storage. I believe we can absolutely come up with a floor plan in a truck conversion to our liking. BTW I am refering to conversions built on class 8 chassis.
Most, if not all, the class 8 conversion folks will custom make a floor plan for you. I know that Dynamax, Powerhouse, Renegade will. As far as the room, I don't think you would be disappointed if you took a look at the Dynamax Ultra line. They make a 40' and a 45 foot. Mine has much more outdoor storage in the bays than my 36' winnebago and after 4 years of traveling months at a time in the Winnie (and having plenty of storage) this is really a treat. I do have a pass thru storage bin in the back of my coach and it is huge! The bays are also a lot taller and deeper than my Winnie.
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JTHarley
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12/22/11 10:30am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: High End Super C vs DP
I've owned 3 class A coaches and as you can see by my signature I just got my new 45' Dynamax Ultra with quad slides. Why did I switch? Several reasons.....
My Dynamax drives like a lexus! Everybit as good as my Vectra (which I loved) and the amenities rival that of very high end class A's. I looked at show hauler, hallmark, renegade but the big difference is that Dynamax really knows how to make the super C's luxurious. The attention to detail and interior quality (fit and finish) is wonderful. No rattles going down the road, tons of power and towing capacity. I enjoy the "car" like features of the front end and having a drivers door to get in and out of. Another big feature is that the dash heat and AC are made for over the road truckers and they WILL heat and cool the entire coach without running the furnace or roof AC when on the road. It gets downright hot!!
It has 7 foot ceilings and HUGE slides, the drivers side slide is the biggest I've ever had with regard to its depth. Some other nice features: stone floors (heated), aqua hot, king bed, huge shower, granite counters ect... and the weight/towing capacity is incredible. No need to ever weigh in to see if your overweight just to make sure you have it balanced in the coach. Fully loaded for a 3 month trip and I still have over 6000 pounds that I could add. The cutaway for the front cab is not like a class 6 truck or a super C since the floors are flat (no step) and the cutaway goes to the ceiling so you don't feel like your in a cab.
From a maintenance standpoint having the engine up front is not only a great safety factor but everything from oil changes to engine work is cheaper and easier to get to. At my freighliner dealer, they now charge me a lower labor rate to do the annual maintenance. They have one rate for MH's and one for over the road truckers. Service centers hate working under that back bed and they charge you for it.... Just about any truck service facility will work on them also while on the road so looking for a service center is no problem.
The mpg are much higher also because of the aero dynamic front end. On my vectra I would get 7.2 mpg while towing the jeep and that was after it was broke in with 40K miles. The dynamax is already getting over 10 mpg towing the same jeep and it only has 6K miles on it so I expect it to go up once it gets broke in. Others in the dynamax club are getting between 11-12 mpg towing. With a tank capacity of 140 gallons that extends my drive distance by almost 400 miles compared to the vectra with 100 gallon tanks. With regard to the turning radius....mine is 52 degrees instead of 55 on my Vectra and has posed no real challenges going to campgrounds in the last 4 months nor do I anticipate any.
Although mine is not considered a super C, it is actually a class 8 truck & the only downside so far is that some of the class A resorts we used to go to won't let me in with my new coach. That's ok because there are plenty who do and many of them like the signature resort in Naples where we are going in a few days does make exceptions for class 8 trucks. It never ceases to amaze me that they restrict coaches that are 500K+ in price to visit.....oh well. The other thing I miss a bit is the large front windshield..
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JTHarley
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12/22/11 05:48am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Choosing a RV
For us, my wife likes to be able to walk back and go to the bathroom (it seems like every hour) make a sandwich or lay on the bed while I'm driving and watch a little satellite TV. In addition, there is just no comparison to the comfort of driving a diesel motorhome or any class A versus a pick up truck. The vacation starts the minute you pull out of the driveway!!!
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JTHarley
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12/20/11 12:05pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Auto leveling jacks
I know for my coach that none of the wheels should be completely off the ground. Nor does my Jack manual call for anything under the jack's. If you are on concrete have you tried simply putting the jack's down without the boards? Is the site your on that un level?
On my auto leveling jacks, if the ground is THAT un level it will give me an error code.
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JTHarley
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12/20/11 10:34am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Best All Around RV Guide or Campground Directory?
RV park reviews.....by far is the best. The USERS rate the campground and they don't have adds for RV parks (always skeptical about that) plus you get lots of reviews by clicking the "see older posts" line. Having a 45' coach many of the campgrounds say they are "big rig friendly" and they are not. I also use Big Rigs, Best Bets because the writer has visited every campground in the book and even tells you what sites are easy in and out.
I also find the "satellite" map view helpful because you can actually see the campground so you know ahead of time what you are getting into.
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JTHarley
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12/19/11 04:37pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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