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RE: "Problem Class A" or is this normal?
Lets look at each one of these...
Problems:
* Replaced rear end ring & pinion gear - extreme noise as we drove off the dealer lot.
Ford issue - 100% Shouldn't Newmar or the dealer test drive the coach before delivery? Newmar as much at fault as Ford IMO.
* Replaced entire rear ramp door assembly - cracked when loading 1st motorcyle. Again, Newmar contracted with the door supplier - why no testing before letting the consumer find the failure? A lesser rider without my 42-years of riding experience would have fallen when the front tire broke thru the ramp surface. Result would have been injury and damaged bike.
Newmar issue - 100%, defective door?
* Rear cargo tie down attachment strips in the floor improperly secured to floor. Screws missed floor supports and/or were stripped out. Had a motorcycle been tied down it would have fallen over!
Newmar issue - 100%, human mistake
* Driveshafts installed incorrectly after rear end gears replaced. No test drive by the factory after repairs. We went to pick it up and 5 miles down the road had to turn around and bring it back to the factory.
Ford issue - 100%
* Main slide out ruined the laminate floor during 1st week long use of the RV - entire floor had to be replaced.
The slides run on rollers. Unless there was a complete roller failure this is more likely an ownership issue. Debris hanging up on a roller is the cause of this 99% (?) of the time. The floor must be clean when the slides come back in. Newmar? Maybe? Owner? Probably? My wife and I actually swept and wiped down the floor each time before we operated the slide - we were worried this might happen. It's a design issue with each of the 4 rollers handling the weight of the slide and not a very durable faux hardwood laminate floor. Tile or carpet would be better choices but 2010 model had this laminate floor as the "upgrade" option. Newmar IMO.
* When we picked up the unit after the floor was replaced it was filthy dirty inside - thick dust even inside of the cabinets much less on all visible surfaces. Carpets were filthy - so bad Newmar then offered to clean everything free of charge. Nice gesture but more down time.
Newmar issue, offered to clean. Were they pushed timewise by a demanding customer or simply lazy? Or something in between??? I'll call this one pretty minor. No pressure from us - they already had the unit for 3 months. Just a lack of caring for the customers like new unit. They did clean it but why should I have to ask and then wait several more days? Newmar IMO.
* Rear electric bunk beds inoperable upon delivery. Shouldn't the factory AND/OR the dealer check those before delivery to the customer?
And the fix was??? Blown fuse? Bad motor? Again, if it's fixed pretty minor issue. The side rails and chain drive were installed improperly. The entire unit had to be R&R. No excuse for it to leave the factory inoperable.
* Rear cargo area side door (this unit has 2 entry doors) deadbolt lock could not be opened from the outside with the key.
And the cause was? Wrong key? Bad installation? Another pretty minor issue as long as it's been corrected. Yes a minor issue. They R&R the lock assembly and repaired it so the inside twist nob would operate the deadbolt.
* Passenger front brake caliper "froze" causing burned up brake pads. Caliper replaced but Ford refused to replace the brake pads! 7,800 miles.
Another Ford issue. Knowing how hard Ford works to keep customers satisfied this one is a real :h. I would bet dimes to donuts this was a dealer not wanting to do paperwork more than Ford "refusing" to replace. I called Ford's RV warranty department. I was told absolutly under no circumstances will they pay for new brake pads once a unit is past 12 months from it's "purchase" date - regardless of mileage. The Ford Truck service dealer simply backed up what Ford RV customer hotline said.
* Failed rear AC unit - fan had to be replaced.
Supplier issue, and almost every RV builder uses the same supplier on this one. We had a total A/C failure on our '08 Kountry Star (bad part inside), Dometic replaced under warranty. Again, pretty minor as long as it's fixed.
I've asked the OP twice now if everything has been taken care of with no answer. Hmm...why not answer the questions? If everything has been taken care of then enjoy. If not get it fixed. It's not like Newmar has told you to go away.
And for the record I will say the OP has had more issues with his one unit than we have with our 3 Newmars combined. Yes everything has been taken care of. My whole point was actually 3 part - 1) Did we have a higher number of problems than most buyers experience? I think so. 2) Did we have some more serious issues that are not common? Yes I think we did. 3) Most importantly, almost all of our problems COULD have been fixed PRIOR to Newmar sending the unit to the dealer. All of the major problems were there from the factory and NOT something that showed up later after the unit was used for a few days/weeks. That's what has upset us the most. Then the topper was taking it to the factory because we felt they would do better work than a dealer only to have them make mistakes, NOT perform test drives after their drive train repairs and left it a filthy mess which meant we wasted a drive there and back again plus several more weeks waiting for the work to be done correctly.
I also asked Newmar during the height of this situation to consider taking the unit back as a R&D in quality learning exercise and get us into a replacment unit that didn't have all these issues. I even offered to pay additional money to do so. That was refused. I then asked for an extension of the warranty so I could have some faith in this unit. That was refused. I can only conclude a situation like ours is considered "normal" for Newmar. Not knowing if I should feel that way or not is why I have asked the opinions of this well respected forum, which I appreciate very much.
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DVREDC5
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11/04/11 08:33pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: "Problem Class A" or is this normal?
I guess I should clarify what I feel should be "basic" quality control in the RV industry with specific problems from our 2010 Newmar 3920. I can't see why the most basic quality control effort would not have caught AND corrected these prior to sending the unit out the door.
1) Rear electric bunk beds/lower couch not operable.
2) Second cargo side entry door deadbolt lock not operable and would lock you inside. You had to open it with the key.
3) Main cabin entry door rattled continuously over the slightest road imperfection.
4) Rear end ring & pinion noise so loud it made conversation difficult inside the coach at highway speed. It was easily heard at all speeds above 5 mph.
5) TV switch control box wired incorrectly - only 1 source was connected properly.
6) Couch/sofa front leather/vinyl panel falling off after 1st day use - loose staples.
7) Rear exterior of ramp door had been cracked during production or on the line and repaired in a manner you could see a visible crack line of the repair.
8) Missing and or peeled paint around the front door latch so the base white color stands out "under" the dark brown exterior paint.
9) Tie down strips secured to the floor of the rear toy hauler area installed improperly with stripped screws and several screws failed to catch anything firm under the floor. The strips can be lifted up in areas with your hands. Had a motorcycle been tied down to them it would have fallen over in the first few miles down the road doing damage to the motorcycle AND interior wall/floor of the coach. Some screws could be pulled up with your fingers.
10) Privacy shade for front side entry door installed with brackets in wrong location. Whoever did the installation simply bent the brackets so the shade could be forced in but made it impossible to lower it.
11) Main slide out permanently scratched the hardwood look laminate floor after just 3 days of driving and setting up in the campground at night. There is no fix for this by the way. I purchased chair mats and cut strips whichwe have to tape to the floor before we close the slide so the rollers roll on the plastic chair mat rather than the floor. Simply a poor design and/or poor choice of floor material. Hard tile would likely hold up better.
This is just a partial list of problems that came up right after delivery - there were many more to follow. Not all are serious problems yet some are. However every item would and should have been caught when being built or certainly afterwards during any quality and operational checks. If they leave things like this up to their dealer network shame on them. The dealer was touted and one of their "award winning" service dealers who apparently think all they need to do is give a unit a wash and it's ready to go.
If we picked a manufacture who didn't harp on their quality, their being different and their moral comittment then I wouldn't feel so badly and it would be shame on us. That wasn't the case. Then to have the factory make mistakes while fixing what should have been done right the first time is what is so upsetting. Why should I at any time in the future consider spending even more money on a higher end unit with the same manufacture? Next month we will be out of our factory warranty due to time with only 8,000 miles. I've asked Newmar for help with an extended warranty to give us some peace of mind. Newmar refused. That's standing behind your product!
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DVREDC5
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11/02/11 08:17pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: "Problem Class A" or is this normal?
Sounds like the opportunity is there for the taking by someone and some company to start a new RV manufacturing company to do it right and put the others who continue to do business as they have done for 50 years out of business. Hey, I hear Warren Buffett has some extra money he hasn't had to pay income taxes on he is looking to spend, right??? Just because he has in interest in Berkshire doesn't mean he can't diversify more...hey, I couldn't resist trying to make everyone laugh!!!
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DVREDC5
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11/01/11 10:29pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: "Problem Class A" or is this normal?
I'm not so sure Honda or Toyota building RV's would hurt the American economy. Just like most overseas auto manufactures they built plants here in the U.S. with OUR workers. The then employ local U.S. workers for assembly so our economy and our workers and local communities do get some benefit. Heck, most "American" auto manufactures don't actually build their vehicles here either. The difference is a higher quality manufacture in the game would force all manufactures to up their quality. It could be an American manufacture that starts that ball rolling. I do find it interesting that the vast majority of RV are built by companies doing business in IN. There have to be some tax laws or employment laws that make IN more favorable and profitable for the manufactures rather than being good for the consumer. There is more than enough profit in these units as judged by volume dealers selling brand new model year units at 30-35% off MSRP. Those dealers aren't giving the units away. It actually is pretty amazing that most buyers feel good about buying a used unit because they know up front they want the "bugs" worked out by the first owner. That says volumes for the lack of quality control in the industry.
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DVREDC5
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11/01/11 09:52pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: "Problem Class A" or is this normal?
Hey everyone,I haven't called on the forum for much over the years but do appreciate the replies, even the funny ones as we need a good laugh. As always, time is the most precious and valuable thing we all have and it's been the missed weeks and yes actually months (4) that we were without the unit that was the most upsetting. Especially since we are not full timers and with limited time our kids have out of school and me away from my job we lost opportunities we won't get again. Essentially the RV industry is where the auto industry was a few decades ago with inferior warranties (really 12 months for units this expensive?) and poor quality control. We certainly will think very long and hard before buying another coach in the future. Between mysef and our daughters we have purchased 6 brand new vehicles over the last 3 years and only 1 had to go to the dealer for ANY warranty work. New vehicles today are extremely complex and high tech yet our Dodge (2), Ford, Nissan (2) & Chevy brands have all been great examples of high quality workmanship. Hopefully the RV industry can follow their lead.
Thanks again for your comments and insight!
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DVREDC5
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10/31/11 07:48pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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"Problem Class A" or is this normal?
Hello everyone: We purchased a new 2010 Newmar 3920 Class A gas powered toy hauler motorhome and took delivery 3/2010. My wife and I spent over a year doing research as to which brand we thouht would provide he best quality and service for our hard earned money and Newmar seemed to be the one for us. Long story short - very poor quality control at the factory level and also the dealer level which meant lots of minor and several major issues at and after delivery. Repeated visits to the factory, mistakes during repairs, missed or improper repairs, more returned visits, and lots of down time. Newmar was always plesant, friendly and accomodating during our warranty repairs but our patience has been pushed beyond any reasonable expectations.
Problems:
* Replaced rear end ring & pinion gear - extreme noise as we drove off the dealer lot.
* Replaced entire rear ramp door assembly - cracked when loading 1st motorcyle.
* Rear cargo tie down attachment strips in the floor improperly secured to floor. Screws missed floor supports and/or were stripped out. Had a motorcycle been tied down it would have fallen over!
* Driveshafts installed incorrectly after rear end gears replaced. No test drive by the factory after repairs. We went to pick it up and 5 miles down the road had to turn around and bring it back to the factory.
* Main slide out ruined the laminate floor during 1st week long use of the RV - entire floor had to be replaced.
* When we picked up the unit after the floor was replaced it was filthy dirty inside - thick dust even inside of the cabinets much less on all visible surfaces. Carpets were filthy - so bad Newmar then offered to clean everything free of charge. Nice gesture but more down time.
* Rear electric bunk beds inoperable upon delivery. Shouldn't the factory AND/OR the dealer check those before delivery to the customer?
* Rear cargo area side door (this unit has 2 entry doors) deadbolt lock could not be opened from the outside with the key.
* Passenger front brake caliper "froze" causing burned up brake pads. Caliper replaced but Ford refused to replace the brake pads! 7,800 miles.
* Failed rear AC unit - fan had to be replaced.
Many othe small problems which we expected with a new unit but the major ones were far more than the usual "bugs" that had to be worked out of a new unit in the first few uses. we are NOT full timers so these issues were from our few trips we could take during the first few months we had the unit. Literally only a collective 2 1/2 weeks of use.
Is this normal for Newmar? Is this because we purchased a lower end price unit rather than their higher end coaches? Did we just get a lemon?
I'd really appreciate other Newmar owner's experiences and any suggestions as to what you did that was successful in working with Newmar.
Thanks!
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DVREDC5
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10/25/11 10:25pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Looking for New Diesel Pusher - Seeking Opinions
Many good brands and I'm not experienced with a DP (Gasser Newmar 3920 now) but you have to check this dealer web site. We researched our new 2010 unit for almost 2 years and without question this dealer always seemed to have the best pricing and volume to choose from, especially at this time of year. I have always told myself it would be worth the trip there for the apparent savings. Worth looking at anyhow - www.mshrv.com I have no affiliation with this dealer other than to have been checking their pricing for several years. Possibly someone on the Forum has used them and could add some input on being satisfied or not?
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DVREDC5
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10/25/11 09:38pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: 30 amp electric and 2 a/c units
Check this adapter out that is sold at a lot of places but this happens to be at Camping World. We have a 40' Class a with 3 large AC units and need 50 amps to safely power our rig. We only had to use this a few times because we usually can get 50 amp service at the parks but needed it at a park and also at a Nascar race where 30 amp was the max provided. Worked great and we did check the polarity ahead of time as advised.
Here are the details from the CW description - $70
www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/50-amp-rv-box-adapter/25774
Use your 50-amp power cord in parks without 50-amp service to operate lights and appliances.
Two 30-amp plugs on heavy-duty 17"L UL approved cords supply power to a 50-amp receptacle from any combination of two 30-, 20- or 15-amp power receptacles. One 30-amp connection and one 20-15-amp connection (with included adapter) on separate circuits is the ideal situation for running both air conditioners. For providing 20-15 amps on each leg an additional #24493 30-to-15-amp adapter (sold separately) is required. Receptacle is housed in a weather-proof box with flip cover and works best if outlets are on separate circuits. Polarity check of each park receptacle is recommended before use-see #16036 Good Governor (sold separately). Not for use with GFI receptacles
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DVREDC5
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06/24/11 10:51pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: What RV model is most trouble free
All kidding aside - we purchased a new 2010 Newmar Canyon Star Class A 1 1/2 years ago. Love the Newmar quality and value we received for what we have (paid $116,000 new-MSRP $156,000).
We had several issues and my chief complaint was either the factory or especially the dealer could have and should have caught and corrected them before delivery to us.
Having said that I think all any of us can hope for is a manufacture that will take care of any issues and do it willingly and right the first time. We live in northern IL and purchased the unit from a dealer in FL (long story) but because of no close local dealer we dealth directly with the Newmar factory in IN which worked out great.
Frustrating for us to have issues on what we felt was such an expensive purchase (low price compared to most Class A's) but at least Ndewmar did everything they could to get things repaired under warranty and even offered to have someone drive it back and forth for us if we wanted that -and paid for some fuel expense too.
What I would do from our learning experience is what most reputable dealers offer and that is to come and stay in your rig for several days on the dealer's lot to make sure everything does indeed work properly and so unlike us, you aren't on a trip several states away before you realize the dealer or factory missed something during their set up.
When our kids are grown and we get closer to retirement we are hoping to purchase a much higher end unit and if we do spend $300-$400K on a new unit we certainly will approach that differently. We will want a several day use at the dealership and then plan for a few items to be corrected and then take a short trip as another shake down and be ready for another correction visit to the dealer or factory. Newmar as you already know has hook ups at their factory as many others do just for that purpose.
Outside of that someone told us once that he would never again buy a brand new RV. Only slightly used units just because he knows all the bugs have been worked out by the original owner. Interesting viewpoint and has some validity I guess.
Good luck and I guess you have to go into it with the mindset it won't be perfect and unlike most expensive high end cars made you will need a few trips to the dealer or factory before it's all 100% right.
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DVREDC5
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06/24/11 10:41pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Unloading motorcycles out of a Toy Hauler
Hard for me to go all the way back to my learning years of riding up a ramp for the first time because it was 40-years ago when I was 10. But, all great tips here so far and I to have heavy Harley's and our Newmar Canyon Star has a pretty steep ramp. Always ride it up and no need for any speed before you start up the ramp. Just slip the clutch a little and you will be fine. Be ready with your fingers on the front brake while doing so in case you need to stop or accidentally stall the engine. Don't panic, you have both feet out on the ramp and you can hold the bike still with the front brake. It also won't slide backwards with the clutch out and the engine off. JUst be a little careful when you pull the clutch in to start the engine after it stalls because it might slide backwards on a wet ramp. Again, the key is to not panic. As soon as the back tire hits the flat ground it will stop sliding backwards.
When you back out leave the engine off but in 1st gear so you can slow it down by letting the clutch out slightly as you back down the ramp. That's only necessary if you find using your front brake just locks the front tire and you start to slide backwards. It depends on the weight of the bike, ramp angle and ramp surface. Ours is a nice textured surface with decent traction. If yours is too smooth stop by a skateboard shop and ask for some "grip tape" for a skateboard. It's like sandpaper on one side and sticky on the other and comes in long rolls. You simply ask for how long you need it. Many stores sell it in widths up to 5-8" which is nice. Run a strip the full length of your ramp where you need to go up and down with your bikes. Really solves the wet ramp problem for those with smooth surface ramps.
Until you get the hang of it ask someone to help you stady the bike and or be ready to keep you from sliding backwards or falling over in case you make a mistake the first few times.
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DVREDC5
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06/24/11 10:22pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Motorcycle Welcome?
I've been hauling Harley's for year's and never an issue. All we do is come and go from the campgound and we all have slightly louder than stock modified exhaust systems. Nothing crazy like some of these "loud pipe" nuts have. Also, at every campground we have been in other campers stop by when we are outside cleaning and polishing up our bikes to look and chat about our rides etc. Always very friendly and great experiences. I would suggest doing the "tuning" at home and not at the campsite!
Good luck and also look for motorcycle friendly campgrounds as others have mentioned. There are many around and often have special events, cook outs etc. just for you and fellow bikers.
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DVREDC5
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06/24/11 10:04pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Complete List of Toy Haulers
Addition to the Motorized category - Newmar Canyon Star Toy Hauler Model # 3920.
www.newmarcorp.com Class A Gas unit with bedroom, sleeps 7-8 (more if some are children) and hauls up to 2 full sized motorcycles or large ATV's.
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DVREDC5
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06/24/11 09:54pm |
Toy Haulers
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