Red Ramrod
Monroe, WA
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Joined: 05/01/2003
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Hunter,
Glad to hear you already know and understand the Ex suspension. I am running V/mod B springs and it handles the 1100-1300lb TW fine. I have about 1.5" of rear sag after setting the WD. The ride is great unloaded and loaded.
I found a lightly used Propride for $1500. One nice thing about the Propride and Hensley is that they control sway well even when running a light tongue since they do not rely on friction created by the TW.
2012 Sabre 32QBTS - Triple slide bunk house, Propride 3P Hitch
2005 Excursion - lifted and heavily modified
2005 Cardinal 31BH (sold 2011)
2003 Arctic Fox 1150 (sold 2008)
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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Joined: 12/27/2003
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Procrastinator wrote:Back to the trailer, I too was concerned about the lack of tongue weight. I have attempted to move anything I can up front to increase tongue weight but it appears that I still don't even have 10% tongue weight.--- I don't know that you have a lack of tongue weight.
The scales data indicate the load on the TV's axles increased by 890# with the TT attached. However, that does not necessarily mean the tongue weight is 890#.
Did you have loading on the WD bars when you measured the axle loads with TT attached? If so, the WD system would have transferred some of the tongue weight to the TT's axles. And the calculated TW then would be equal to 890# PLUS the amount of load transferred to the TT. IOW, the load added to the TV is equal to the TW MINUS the load transferred to the TT.
Properly sized and properly adjusted WD bars can transfer a load equal to about 20-30% of the TW to the TT. If you were transferring 25% of TW to the TT, the indicated TV axles load increase of 890# would correspond to a TW of 890/(1-0.25) = 1187#. That would give a TW equal to about 14.5% of the TT's GVW.
Unfortunately, if you were transferring load via the WDH when the TT was attached, there is no way of calculating TW from the data obtained. You would need to know:
Axle loads for TV only, and
Axle loads for TV with TT attached and WD not activated.
If you want to know how much load is transferred by the WDH, it also would be good to know:
Axle loads for TV with TT attached and WD activated.
Ron
* This post was
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edited 02/02/12 05:03pm by Ron Gratz *
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LarryJM
NoVa
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Joined: 11/09/2007
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Sorry, but IMO anytime you have to modify your suspension or tires means at least to me you have the wrong TV to what you are trying to tow.
JMHO as always,
Larry
2001 standard box 7.3L E-350 PSD Van with 4.10 rear and 2007 Holiday Rambler Aluma-Lite 8306S Been RV'ing since 1974.
ALL TRAILER MODS>>ETERNABOND INSTALL>>RAINKAP INSTALL
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Coyotecprs
chicago
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Joined: 08/30/2006
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I assume you did not have any sway. I would expect a dually to feel more stable from side to side movement. You did not give the axle weights of the excursion without the trailer but it appear the you probably have the WDH set pretty good. Maybe you are just expecting to much of the excursion compared to the truck.
2005 Dodge Ram 2500, 5.7 Hemi
2007 Jayco Jay Flight 30.5 BHS
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Procrastinator
Southern Illinois
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Joined: 02/22/2005
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LarryJM wrote:Sorry, but IMO anytime you have to modify your suspension or tires means at least to me you have the wrong TV to what you are trying to tow.
JMHO as always,
Larry
Not in this case. The first Excursions came out with D rated tires, and after a recall E rated tires were used instead. As for the spring issue as previously stated over and over again, the Excursion is a short bed F250 with a camper shell and a third row seat. Unfortunately Ford attempted to soften the ride for "the soccer/hockey mom" and put inadequate (weaker) springs on them which after many miles become too weak to support their weight and then gives a poor ride with a wandering characteristic. So putting the right factory F250 springs on a F250 actually makes more sense than the weak springs Ford used.
As my vehicle came was listed to tow 11,000 pounds, I think I am well within the capabilities of the trailer that I will be towing. I am just wanting perfection in the towing.
2003 Ford Excursion 7.3 diesel
1984 Avion 34W triple axle no slide
Husband, Wife, Son, Daughter, Olde English Bulldog and a Great Dane
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Procrastinator
Southern Illinois
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Joined: 02/22/2005
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The scales data indicate the load on the TV's axles increased by 890# with the TT attached. However, that does not necessarily mean the tongue weight is 890#.
Did you have loading on the WD bars when you measured the axle loads with TT attached? If so, the WD system would have transferred some of the tongue weight to the TT's axles. And the calculated TW then would be equal to 890# PLUS the amount of load transferred to the TT. IOW, the load added to the TV is equal to the TW MINUS the load transferred to the TT.
Properly sized and properly adjusted WD bars can transfer a load equal to about 20-30% of the TW to the TT. If you were transferring 25% of TW to the TT, the indicated TV axles load increase of 890# would correspond to a TW of 890/(1-0.25) = 1187#. That would give a TW equal to about 14.5% of the TT's GVW.
Unfortunately, if you were transferring load via the WDH when the TT was attached, there is no way of calculating TW from the data obtained. You would need to know:
Axle loads for TV only, and
Axle loads for TV with TT attached and WD not activated.
If you want to know how much load is transferred by the WDH, it also would be good to know:
Axle loads for TV with TT attached and WD activated.
Ron
Yes, I did have the torsion bars attatched when weighing. I have been very busy since purchasing the truck to get it up to speed and I was rushing without proper thinking.
As I am very sure that I soon will be changing all the springs on all four corners, I did not want to bother myself with measuring and simply kinda threw it together too quickly and took off to weigh it for the tuner info.
After doing the springs, I will spend the time and correctly adjust the weight distribution by measuring and then go hit the scales again to verify it is correct.
Thanks again for all the info.
I have sent out many P.M.'s to those who help and had valuable information
Procrastinator
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LarryJM
NoVa
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Joined: 11/09/2007
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Procrastinator wrote:LarryJM wrote:Sorry, but IMO anytime you have to modify your suspension or tires means at least to me you have the wrong TV to what you are trying to tow.
JMHO as always,
Larry
Not in this case. The first Excursions came out with D rated tires, and after a recall E rated tires were used instead. As for the spring issue as previously stated over and over again, the Excursion is a short bed F250 with a camper shell and a third row seat. Unfortunately Ford attempted to soften the ride for "the soccer/hockey mom" and put inadequate (weaker) springs on them which after many miles become too weak to support their weight and then gives a poor ride with a wandering characteristic. So putting the right factory F250 springs on a F250 actually makes more sense than the weak springs Ford used.
As my vehicle came was listed to tow 11,000 pounds, I think I am well within the capabilities of the trailer that I will be towing. I am just wanting perfection in the towing.
Thanks, you just proved my point in that the X as sold was not really a good TV as sold, but a grocery getter with a huge passenger capacity.
Larry
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MM49
Brighton, MI, USA
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Joined: 12/28/2004
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Procrastinator wrote: The scales data indicate the load on the TV's axles increased by 890# with the TT attached. However, that does not necessarily mean the tongue weight is 890#.
Did you have loading on the WD bars when you measured the axle loads with TT attached? If so, the WD system would have transferred some of the tongue weight to the TT's axles. And the calculated TW then would be equal to 890# PLUS the amount of load transferred to the TT. IOW, the load added to the TV is equal to the TW MINUS the load transferred to the TT.
Properly sized and properly adjusted WD bars can transfer a load equal to about 20-30% of the TW to the TT. If you were transferring 25% of TW to the TT, the indicated TV axles load increase of 890# would correspond to a TW of 890/(1-0.25) = 1187#. That would give a TW equal to about 14.5% of the TT's GVW.
Unfortunately, if you were transferring load via the WDH when the TT was attached, there is no way of calculating TW from the data obtained. You would need to know:
Axle loads for TV only, and
Axle loads for TV with TT attached and WD not activated.
If you want to know how much load is transferred by the WDH, it also would be good to know:
Axle loads for TV with TT attached and WD activated.
Ron
Yes, I did have the torsion bars attatched when weighing. I have been very busy since purchasing the truck to get it up to speed and I was rushing without proper thinking.
As I am very sure that I soon will be changing all the springs on all four corners, I did not want to bother myself with measuring and simply kinda threw it together too quickly and took off to weigh it for the tuner info.
After doing the springs, I will spend the time and correctly adjust the weight distribution by measuring and then go hit the scales again to verify it is correct.
Thanks again for all the info.
I have sent out many P.M.'s to those who help and had valuable information
Procrastinator
The axle load numbers look pretty good from your first post. You’re going about this study correctly. Setting your hitch up to benefit the TV is the correct direction. When I do a study I take one step further and add in tire capacity in the calculations. Most of the members of this site members set their hitches up to a standard set of instructions regardless of their TV. Then they seam to be unable to make decision about the TV characteristics. The first comment will be gimmie the 1200#bars!
MM49
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