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Forum
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RE: Do you really love your Dog? Good food vs cheap food.
Sorry if something is known to cause cancer at "ANY LEVEL", it should not be allowed, but because of big business it sadly is allowed into the food chain.:(
You'd better avoid oxygen :B
Oxygen: our major carcinogen?
Abstract
Evidence has accumulated implicating that atmospheric oxygen can be considered as an important environmental mutagen, whose action can be potentiated by a variety of environmental factors. Under normal conditions oxygen genotoxicity is largely prevented by a cellular antioxygenic defense system, which must be extremely efficient, but might not be entirely safe. A better understanding of this defense system may help to suggest how the incidence of carcinogenesis can be minimized.
Reactive oxygen species: Role in the development of cancer and various chronic conditions
Abstract
Oxygen derived species such as superoxide radical, hydrogen peroxide, singlet oxygen and hydroxyl radical are well known to be cytotoxic and have been implicated in the etiology of a wide array of human diseases, including cancer. Various carcinogens may also partly exert their effect by generating reactive oxygen species (ROS) during their metabolism. Oxidative damage to cellular DNA can lead to mutations and may, therefore, play an important role in the initiation and progression of multistage carcinogenesis. The changes in DNA such as base modification, rearrangement of DNA sequence, miscoding of DNA lesion, gene duplication and the activation of oncogenes may be involved in the initiation of various cancers. Elevated levels of ROS and down regulation of ROS scavengers and antioxidant enzymes are associated with various human diseases including various cancers. ROS are also implicated in diabtes and neurodegenerative diseases. ROS influences central cellular processes such as proliferation a, apoptosis, senescence which are implicated in the development of cancer. Understanding the role of ROS as key mediators in signaling cascades may provide various opportunities for pharmacological intervention.
The following have been shown to increase the risk of some cancers when taken at higher levels (above RDA/DRI):
Betacarotene
Tocopherol
Ascorbic Acid
Folic Acid
Since Vitamin C, Tocopherols, and Ethoxyquin have all been shown to increase cancer risks when taken at higher levels than those in feeds what should feed manufacturers used as a preservative?
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BCSnob
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02/09/12 09:57am |
RV Pet Stop
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RE: Do you really love your Dog? Good food vs cheap food.
If an ingredient is known to cause cancer in a specific organ at X amount. Can anyone honestly think that eating an amount of a 'known cancer causing' ingredient just less than X amount long term is not going to cause cancer?Are you not listening to the drug ads on TV? :h There are many things we consume that above certain levels are toxic and/or carcinogenic but we continue to consume them at lower levels (below which they have been shown to have no adverse effects within the limits of the testing performed).
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A recent example of us consuming large quantities of a known carcinogen
4-methylimidazole aka Caramel Color
If this proves true for all levels of 4-methylimidazole you must give up colas, beers, coffee, soy sauce, etc.
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The animal feed testing experiments use the amounts of an ingredient in the final form of the feed. This is very obvious in the "experimnetal" sections of the feed studies.
There is no need to tell me about uncertainties and confidence intervals in median or mean test results; I work with these every day.
Ethoxyquin does a better job at preventing the oxidation of fats than other anti-oxidants (including vitamin C and tocopherols); ethoxyquin survives through the manufacturing process while the others must be sprayed on after extrusion. You should know that the oxidation products of fats are carcinogenic.
I agree that there is insufficient safety testing performed on various sub-populations (children, women, age and size groups, etc). Are you willing to pay a lot more for everything in order to cover the costs of the expanded test groups and extended test times?
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BCSnob
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02/09/12 08:49am |
RV Pet Stop
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RE: This is very strange.
You're impressed with what I don't know?:h
Then you must be REALLY impressed.
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BCSnob
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02/09/12 04:30am |
RV Pet Stop
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RE: This is very strange.
Try learning all about the sugar content in a blade of grass and 'when' it is at its highest and when it is at its lowest thru out the year so you can decide whether or not to let your Cushings horse out on it! :R:BBefore you can do that you'd better know what grasses are in your field. My knowledge of grasses, the nutritional content, and changes in the nutritional content with the season, and how making hay impacts the nutritional content of each grass is very deficient.
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BCSnob
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02/09/12 03:23am |
RV Pet Stop
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RE: Do you really love your Dog? Good food vs cheap food.
So let's round out the information released by the FDA and provide links to the source of the quote.
The results from this study show that ethoxyquin levels above the current tolerance in dog foods produced no adverse reproductive effects. There was, however, an increase in a dark, reddish-brown pigment in the liver of female dogs immediately after completing a 6-week lactation. The liver pigment was identified as protoporphyrin IX, a normal intermediate in the synthesis of heme. This pigment was also associated with elevations in liver-related enzymes in the serum of a few animals.
During lactation, the female dogs consumed two to three times more food as a percentage of body weight than they did at maintenance, and this increased food consumption likely contributed to the increased pigment deposition in the liver and in the elevated serum enzymes. The increased pigment deposition and serum enzymes in lactating female dogs may be reversible when food consumption returns to maintenance, but it still constitutes a finding that must be further investigated.
Here are the details from a follow up study.
In a 90-day study, groups of five beagles of each sex were given
ethoxyquin (purity, 97.6%) by capsule at 0, 2, 4, 20, or 40 mg/kg bw
per day. Clear signs of toxicity were seen during the first seven
weeks of the study at 40 mg/kg bw per day, including reduced body
weight, staining of the body surface, brown urine, brown sclera, dark
mucoid faeces, and emesis, and these groups received only empty
capsules for the final six weeks of the study, effectively becoming
reversibility groups. Investigations of clinical chemistry (including
thyroid hormones), haematology, and ophthalmoscopy were performed
before treatment and at weeks 4 and 12 or 13. Post-mortem
investigations included microscopic examination of a wide range of
tissues from all animals and special stains for pigment
identification.
One female at the highest dose was sacrificed in extremis on
day 13. Other findings were similar in males and females. Clinical
signs including brown staining of the abdomen and urogenital area,
brown urine, decreased faeces, and emesis were seen regularly at 20
and 40 mg/kg bw per day and occasionally during the 4 h after dosing
at 4 mg/kg bw per day; these signs were still present between weeks 7
and 13 ('recovery') in animals at the highest dose. Body-weight loss
occurred at 40 mg/kg bw per day in weeks 1-7, which reversed when
dosing stopped, but females had a lower (12%) mean body weight than
controls at termination. At 20 mg/kg bw per day, body-weight gain was
reduced (60%) throughout the study. Food consumption was reduced at 20
(20%) and 40 mg/kg bw per day (up to 50%). The only notable change in
haematological parameters was a dose-related decrease in activated
partial thromboplastin times in males at 4 mg/kg bw per day and higher
and in females at the highest dose. Marked increases in total
bilirubin concentration and in alkaline phosphatase, alanine
aminotransferase, aspartate aminotransferase, and gamma-GT activities
in serum, indicative of liver dysfunction, were seen at 20 mg/kg bw
per day in weeks 4 and 12 or 13 and at 40 mg/kg bw per day in week 4
only; alanine aminotransferase and, to a lesser extent, alkaline
phosphatase activities were also increased at 4 mg/kg bw per day. By
week 13, the serum values in animals at 40 mg/kg bw per day
(seven-week treatment, six-week recovery) had returned approximately
to control values. There were no significant changes in absolute or
relative organ weights. Treatment-related gross and microscopic
findings were limited to the liver. At 20 and 40 mg/kg bw per day, a
darkened appearance was associated microscopically with increased
pigment deposition, hepatocellular necrosis, cytoplasmic vacuolation,
and bile-duct hyperplasia; at 4 mg/kg bw per day, occasional findings
of mild or moderate pigmentation, minimal hepatocellular necrosis, and
vacuolation were recorded. The pigments were found to be porphyrin and
bilirubin in most cases, some sections also staining for haemosiderin.
The NOAEL was 2 mg/kg bw per day (Naas, 1996c).
Source: International Programme on Chemical Safety
NOAEL = no observed adverse effect level
2 mg/kg bw is approximately equivalent to a 40lb dog eating 2.4 cups of kibble with 150PPM ethoxyquin or 4.9 cups of kibble with 75PPM ethoxyquin.
I have a REAL problem with the attitude that if a compound shows adverse effects at any level (dose, PPM, concentration, etc) it should be banned from any use. If we adopted this approach we would ban everything we take into our bodies because at some level (dose) everything would be bad (possibly toxic) for you.
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BCSnob
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02/08/12 11:32am |
RV Pet Stop
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RE: Do you really love your Dog? Good food vs cheap food.
I love this item found while using google to search ethoxyquin.
Ethoxyquin is not only used as a preservative in dog foods but… are you ready for this… it’s also used as a pesticide… and as a hardening agent in the manufacture of rubber.
But this website doesn't tell you this....
In plastic manufacturing, ascorbic acid can be used to assemble molecular chains more quickly and with less waste than traditional synthesis methods.
or this...
The antioxidant efficiency of the biological antioxidant alpha-tocopherol during melt extrusion of polypropylene (PP) was investigated. The melt stabilising effect of alpha-tocopherol was found to be much higher than that of the commercial synthetic hindered phenol antioxidant Irganox 1010 especially at very low concentrations.
Are you ready for this.....
Vitamin C and E are being used in the manufacturing of plastics.
Don't forget about the industrial cleaning uses of ascorbic acid.
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BCSnob
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02/08/12 04:44am |
RV Pet Stop
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RE: Do you really love your Dog? Good food vs cheap food.
Google does a great job pulling up lots of information found on the internet; however, there is lots of opinion and regurgitated opinion found on the internet that when repeted often enough can become accepted as fact.
A great example of internet rumor and myth being accepted as fact is "ivermectin (HeartGard) is not a safe heartworm preventative for herding breeds".
Instead of using google for finding "facts" try using google scholar.
Mark
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BCSnob
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02/08/12 03:53am |
RV Pet Stop
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RE: Do you really love your Dog? Good food vs cheap food.
BTW all of these chemicals (BHA, BHT, ethoxyquin, tocoperols, and vitamin C) are anti-oxidants and prevent spoilage by the same mechanism (preventing oxidation). All of these have been demonstrated as having anti-cancer properties by the same anti-oxidant mechanism. All have been demonstrated to increase the risk of certain cancers while suppressing the risk of other cancers.
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BCSnob
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02/07/12 11:14am |
RV Pet Stop
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RE: Would one day make a difference ?
Certain jurisdictions have laws regarding when a pup is allowed to leave its birth mother.
Overview of Laws Restricting the Age of Puppies for Sale
Mark
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BCSnob
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02/06/12 02:41pm |
RV Pet Stop
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RE: Do you really love your Dog? Good food vs cheap food.
I've lost my dogs over the years, as many of us have, thru old age...and cancer raised it's ugly head as well. 60% of all Golden Retrievers die from it. Roughly 40% of all dogs get cancer, and 25% die from cancer.
By comparison less than 15% of us Humans sucumb from cancer.This implies that the cancer rate difference between humans and certain breeds of dogs (or all dogs) is related to food. There is no data to support this. However, there is data to support the hypothesis that the cancer rates in dogs (especially purebred dogs) is related to the lack of genetic diversity (coefficient of inbreeding) in dogs as compared to the genetic diversity in humans.
Mark
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BCSnob
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02/06/12 01:25pm |
RV Pet Stop
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RE: Speaking of vet questions.... update with pictures
Strongid paste (pyrantel pamoate) and Safe-Guard paste (fenbendazole) can be purchased from Tractor Supply and many mail order livestock supply sources like Jeffers Livestock
Mark
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BCSnob
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02/05/12 09:00am |
RV Pet Stop
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RE: Why Minivans are Better Than Pickups
So you're point is female drivers are more stubborn (bull headed) about accepting the inevitable (getting caught)?
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BCSnob
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02/03/12 12:05pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: toll roads
Not to worry. In the near future all vehicles will have a transponder and you will need to pay by the miles driven. Your location can be tracked so you can be safe.
I think CA and NM has already had the proposal on the table but as of now it's not going anywhere.I wonder what the US Supreme Court's opinion would be on this method of taxation?
Breaking Down the Supreme Court’s GPS Tracking Decision
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BCSnob
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02/02/12 09:45am |
General RVing Issues
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RE: toll roads
On the plus side it means better fuel economy for travelers.
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BCSnob
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02/02/12 09:25am |
General RVing Issues
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RE: Slide-outs
We have a small slide in our unit. I see 2 main disadvantages to our slide: it limits access to interior storage when pulled in and it reduces the insulation value of our unit in the winter (small air leaks at the bottom of the slide when extended).
I would hate a TT with a floor plan that makes it nearly impossible to use when the slide(s) are in.
Mark
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BCSnob
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02/02/12 09:07am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: which would you choose
On another note, why does the Artic Fox weigh so much? Seems like a lot for a 27' trailer...The dry weight is listed at about 6,700. Is this really that heavy for a well built 27' TT with a slide? Northwood puts on heavy running gear on all their trailers. Our 22ft Nash has a GVWR of 10,000lbs.
I'd go heavier with the TV since you're likely to load up this trailer.
Mark
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BCSnob
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02/02/12 08:53am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: toll roads
Toll Roads News: Cashless
A quote from one story
She (Kristi Lafleur, executive director of Illinois Tollway) says they need to be able to move toward all-electronic tolling (AET) although the only commitment so far to such cashless entirely highway speed toll operations is on the Elgin-O'Hare Tollway on which construction begins 2013.
Wikipedia lists many "all electronic toll" roads in the USA.
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BCSnob
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02/02/12 07:39am |
General RVing Issues
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RE: How do you use your trailer?
At dog events (sheepherding) as a small home. We get to sleep in our own bed (no bed bugs), use our own bathroom (not the port-a-johns), cook our food (not eat out every meal), come in out of bad weather (sheepdog events rarely stop for weather), and take a break during the day (sheepdog events go from sun up to sun down).
Mark
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BCSnob
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02/01/12 03:28am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: What do you use your outdoor shower for?
Washing the dogs and their crates after the dogs get sick.
Mark
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BCSnob
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02/01/12 03:22am |
RV Lifestyle
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RE: Had a ride in a Chevy Volt
You cannot create clean "energy" out of thin air.You can get close with your own wind turbine(s) to recharge an EV; but you certainly can't do with by plugging and EV into the US grid. EVs offer the opportunity for lower emissions if/when US (or personal) power generation move towards cleaner energy sources.
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BCSnob
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01/30/12 11:36am |
Around the Campfire
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