JoeChiOhki
Sauvie Island, OR
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LAdams wrote:Interesting theory, however, being an avid motorcycle rider for many decades and still being here to talk about it, my take on it is a lot of has to do with drivers simply not paying attention - and it is far worse today than it was in years gone by...
While it is true that a motorcycle is a much smaller vehicle than a car, my modulating headlight on high beam and modulating (flashing) brake lights are designed to grab the attention of all but the most serious brain dead drivers...
Still, many motorcyclists are killed by moronic drivers not paying attention... Take the case of the Illinois female drive that killed a motorcyclist waiting to turn left - the female driver of the car was "painting her fingernails" and "didn't see" the motorcyclist!!!
I call that inattentive (negligent) driving!!! The woman should have gone to jail for years and yet she received only an 18 month sentence and served her jail time in the evenings after work!!! What a sham!!!
http://archive.chicagobreakingnews.com/2........-fatal-crash-gets-18-months-in-jail.html
Les
I always wondered why I'd periodically see a motorcycle with a pulsing headlight, just figured his alternator must be going bad  .
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Normk
Canada's Wet Coast
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So long as these threads do not become a bashing session, they can be very valuable. I wonder how often we condemn someone's driving because we simply did not understand the reasons for their actions?
It was very gratifying to hear that someone profited from the mention of headlight oscillators and lane weaving. I will be doubly aware of the consideration regarding acceleration when seeing an approaching sport bike. Even though I rode one for years, not sure if I really thought about that...
Someone mentioned having a concience and not wanting to hurt anyone. Combine that with the issue of physics and one pretty well covers how one should make driving decisions.
My sport tourer will out accelerate or out stop almost anything on the road so one of my big considerations when riding is to avoid having someone close enough that they will rear end me if I have to really climb on the brakes. This is the other side of the RV problem so easy for me to remember when driving either class. Bike = big space behind; RV = big space ahead.
Just as there are different performance issues with RV's, the same is true of motorcycles so knowing a bit about both can help to avoid problems.
Interestingly enough, my view is that most motorcyclists will believe that they have more in common with the RV driver than with other motorists. Both have to deal with the fact that their vehicle has to make compromises in order to deal with other traffic. It has been fun to "cry the blues" over traffic with motorcyclists when in the RV and vice versa.
In many ways the RV is hard to trump though. I recall waiting at a construction road closure in 90 degree sun and listening to a pair of young guys on sport bikes explaining to an older couple in a class C how they couldn't stand to have to drive something so slow. The old guy smiled and agreed, then he asked if they would mind sitting in the motorhome to visit because it was too hot out there without his air conditioning. The young fellows looked a bit sheepish as they climbed into that nice cool, slow RV....
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jgtown
SoCal
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Normk wrote:Motorcyclists are often unseen by other drivers. Here is an interesting phenomonon called: "Motion induced blindness" which may expain why those who fail to move their eyes around frequently enough may fail so see small objects:
http://www.msf-usa.org/motion.html
Thought it might be interesting/instructive.
I rode a motorcycle exclusively for many years. No car, no truck, no RV. Just two wheels. From my long experience on two wheels, I feel very confident saying they're making it way too complicated.
Drivers are not looking for motorcycles. That is why they don't see them. They're looking for cars, vans, SUVs, trucks, buses, and large trucks. If they don't see one of those things, there's nothing to see. I've had people look directly at me, make eye contact, then pull out right in front of me.
I quit riding after I started counting how many times I had to take evasive action during my short (12.5 mile) commute. It averaged once a day. As good as I am at anticipating the actions of other drivers based on head twitches and shifting of hands on the wheel, I figured I'd beaten the odds and one of these days, I'd be watching a twitchy driver on one side and get smashed by by one I didn't see on the other side. I made it well into six figures without any injuries or major accidents so I think I did well. My motorcycle stories are weather related. 
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Normk
Canada's Wet Coast
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jogtown posted: "Drivers are not looking for motorcycles. That is why they don't see them."
There is a well supported theory to that effect, which is to say that people are, in fact, looking for only certain things and ignore others. Many animals do this which is allegedly why grouse who have not come into contact with humans for several generations will often simply ignore an approaching human.
If people are only looking for cars, trucks, it is because it requires less mental effort than it does to analyze everything in front of them. This is exhausting but, IMO, the only way to survive on a motorcycle.
Vehicle computers operate in much the same manner which surprises most people. The computer inputs data such as engine speed, air temperature, throttle position, air density, and so on but it doesn't take this information and plug it into some complex equation as people expect. What it does is to look at the input data values and then to consult its set of "look-up sheets" until it finds a page/sheet with the matching input data. When it has this sheet, it simply outputs the velues listed. This requires for less computing power.
We drive and spend most of our time in "Mode 1" thinking which is automatic and unconcious.....scarey! Combine that with other factors such as motion induced blindness, distractions from passengers, painting one's toe nails....
My 16 year old son was just out doing learner's license practice and I noticed that the speed would start to drop off when ever he started talking about what had happened at school. Of course, none of that affects those of us who have been driving for many years... of course it does! We simply don't admit it.
I often think that RV drivers are better drivers than the average but perhaps this is because we always have to work at it and so have to pay more attention?
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JayWalker2009
USA
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revump wrote:And what about the moronic motorcyclists who fly by you squeezing between vehicles, popping wheelies, and racing, who don't pay attention to any speed limit. I think that this is at least a two-way street.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I am always very cognizant of motorcycles, and many drive safely too. But I really get irritated with the ones who feel because they are on a motorcycle it's free reign to speed excessively and weave in and out of heavy traffic. It is a danger to all on the road when they do that.
So yea, I agree with you. It's a two way street we are speaking of. I know many drivers of automobiles are guilty of not paying attention but there are also many motorcycle drivers guilty of being wreckless and inviting accidents themselves.
As for me, while I have always liked motorcycles, I won't drive one or even as a passenger on one because it seems like to do so you have to take a leap of faith in the ability of other drivers, and quite frankly I don't wanna do that. I see way too many bad drivers on the road.
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az99
N.Y.
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Why bother looking for motorcycles. Just listen for them. I was told by one clown on his unmuffled Harley, that was the purpose of all the noise.
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JayWalker2009
USA
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az99 wrote:Why bother looking for motorcycles. Just listen for them. I was told by one clown on his unmuffled Harley, that was the purpose of all the noise.
I actually love the sound of motorcycles. I went to a CG last year during 'bike week'. When I was in the office, I heard a couple of people yelling at the office manager, demanding a refund, they couldn't sleep, the bikers were loud, and the bikes loud, etc.
WHY do these people check in at a CG with a huge sign BIKE week if they don't like the noise? I just couldn't wrap my head around that. And I know the CG did a great job of informing people when they called into register that it was a bike week going on. The people at this CG are very on the ball. When I registered for that weekend, the first thing they told me was "it is bike week, it will be much noiser than usual weekends". They give you the 'out' to opt out.
Didn't bother me at all. They were coming and going all hours of the night, engines revving. I like the sound.
But I'm a nightowl, so my opinion might not count. LOL
But back to the topic, I feel bad for motorcyclists because no matter what - if they are a good driver, or a bad driver - they still will be the ones to fare the worst in an accident in most cases.
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RVUSA
Orlando, FL, USA
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you cant hear them coming at you. The pipes are pointed in the wrong direction.
* This post was
edited 02/04/12 01:00am by an administrator/moderator *
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ExRocketScientist
Laurel, MD
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I have seen bumper stickers that say "loud pipes save lives". In one situation it does. If you are being overtaken by a motorcycle who is going at just the right speed, you can miss them with every mirror check and blind spot check (because you can't do all simultaneously) due to their size. So you change lanes and run them off of the road. Not if they have loud pipes. On two occasions I did not change lanes because I knew they were there and couldn't find them. Within about a second and a half they were right beside me safe and sound.
The crotch rockets, on the otherhand, overtake you so fast that you will either see them in your rear view mirror, or, if you miss them in that, they will be 100 yards past you before you can even get over the lane divider with your left wheels.
The scary ones are the Honda Gold Wings -- small and quiet, usually driven by a sane person.
ERS
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hypoxia
Arizona
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Normk wrote:Motorcyclists are often unseen by other drivers. Here is an interesting phenomonon called: "Motion induced blindness" which may expain why those who fail to move their eyes around frequently enough may fail so see small objects  ttp://www.msf-usa.org/motion.html
Thought it might be interesting/instructive.
It is interesting. There is a video I have seen where kids are playing basketball, a gorilla goes across the court & most of the time you don't see it as you are focused on the ball. Aviators constantly scan the sky for traffic for the same reason.
I am sometimes suprised at an intersection when a dark car suddenly appears out of the dark road. I am also amazed that bicycle and motorcycle riders wear dark clothing & helmets, can't be out of fashion with bright colors! As that test shows, everyone will at some time not see an object & the smallest object loses in an accident. I wear a white helmet and yellow jacket & know someone will not see me but I figure the odds are a little better.
Jim
My Trailer Rebuild Project
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